Cutting Flights In Pit

[USA320Pilot]

At one point AA had four Midwest hubs with one in ORD, one in BNA, one in DFW, and one in STL. The airline elected to reduce some of its domestic operation to cut costs and elected to close BNA and STL hubs, instead of ORD and DFW.

In my opinion, "Project Barbell" needs to fill in the Midwest and dependent upon what happens with UA, STL could be a key city for the new US Airways.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[coolflyingfool]

So the US/AWA merger would have a STL hub competing with AA and SWA? That doesn't really sound that smart, but then again, you just never know. Just my thoughts...............

 

[hharotz]

Come on! From 2 737s and 12 express flights to PHL/CLT/PIT to a full-fleged east/west hub at STL? STL makes absolutely no sense! If WN doesn't swallow us whole there, AA wouldn't even let us through the door!

As crazy as it may sound, why don't we start flying places where people actually want to go? Why aren't we attacking the real major markets with great schedules, full service, low costs and direct flights? I.e., ORD, SEA, LAX, SFO, NYC, BOS, MIA, MCO, TPA, DFW, IAH, PHX, DEN, LAS, DC, Carribbean, Europe, NRT, HNL etc... Why are we spending our time worrying about the STLs/MCIs/INDs/HGRs/SBYs/PITs of America instead of getting ourselves into the major US markets with full service and low costs to major airports?

Just looking in SABRE today, how on earth does it make sense for us to operate a 737 ABE-CLT (I mean really, who the heck in ABE is running to go to CLT?!..why are we still focusing on hub/spoke when fares are so low?) when we can't even manage to half-fill a 72 seat aircraft from DCA to ORD? 757s PHL-BWI, what the he!! how does this make any sense? Paying Transtates thousands of dollars to operate an ERJ flight PIT-LGA everymorning 30 minutes after a mainline Airbus departure? Something is really fuc!ed up with this company, and has been for years! Things here just don't make sense...the entire operation is illogical.

IF (...IF...IF...) UA goes under, US/HP should jump all over either ORD or DEN for a mid-continent hub operation. Then again, we will probably be too busy worrying about cutting flights at PIT to even notice the demise of UA if it happens! :down:

 

[BoeingBoy]

At one point AA had four Midwest hubs with one in ORD, one in BNA, one in DFW, and one in STL. The airline elected to reduce some of its domestic operation to cut costs and elected to close BNA and STL hubs, instead of ORD and DFW.
Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269124"][/post]​

Actually, not historically correct. AA opened the BNA hub in 1986 and closed it in 1996 (along with RDU). They never had a STL hub until the purchase of TWA, and they largely dismantled the STL hub shortly thereafter (in the aftermath of 911).

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

STL traffic has declined due to a reduction in flights. STL has a very large population base of about 4 million people, which is about the same size as PHL and four times the size of PIT.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269117"][/post]​

Not even close. STL's MSA is around 2.75 million. PIT's MSA is around 2.52 million.

http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2003.pdf

So go from a kind-of Midwestern hub that (up until recently) had depressed traffic levels due to the arrogance of the US pricing department and proximity to LCC airports (CLE and CAK) and move everything to a hub (STL) that could not generate adequate traffic in the face of locally sanified fares (thanks to LUV).

But, as was pointed out somewhere, it does make for good Powerpoint.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The population base in the STL surrounding area is about 4 million people. Moreover, the PIT processing costs are high for a low O&D hub.

There is nothing about PIT ever being a "kind-of Midwestern hub" located in an East Coast state. PIT does not bring much connecting traffic to Project Barbell, but STL does. Moreover, I believe PIT will lose its focus city status with the November schedule change.

Will the new company develop a Midwest hub? I do not know, but I believe it is a strong possibility behind ORD or DEN, dependent upon what happens at UA.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, according to the 3Q04 data, STL had about half the passengers of PHL (and almost twice as many as PIT, but how much of that is due to WN).

Of course, MCI had nearly as many as STL and a lot better infrastructure for a hub (except for the terminal design vis a vis security screening).

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

The population base in the STL surrounding area is about 4 million people. Moreover, the PIT processing costs are high for a low O&D hub.

[post="269144"][/post]​

As Clue pointed out, not even close. The entire state of Missouri has an estimated population of only 5.7 million people, and all of a sudden, the population of the STL MSA is alleged to be 4 million? No matter how many times you say it, it's still not true:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29000.html

 

[blueoceans]

If the population of PIT was the same size as PHL it still wouldn't make sense. Having 2 hubs in the stats of PA has been a serious strategic error since the airline's merger days. Now, if the PIT airport could just be picked up and dropped over there in PHL somewhere...

 

[700UW]

According to US Census information the population of St Louis in 2003 was 332,223 and declined from the year 2000 and the county of St Louis population is slight over 1,000,000.

So please show us how it is over 4 million if the entire state's population is only 5.7 million?

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way!

 

[delldude]

According to US Census information the population of St Louis in 2003 was 332,223 and declined from the year 2000 and the county of St Louis population is slight over 1,000,000.

So please show us how it is over 4 million if the entire state's population is only 5.7 million?

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way!

[post="269184"][/post]​

maybe that guy will give us some that stuff hebe smokin'??

 

[whlinder]

Will the new company develop a Midwest hub? I do not know, but I believe it is a strong possibility behind ORD or DEN, dependent upon what happens at UA.

[post="269144"][/post]​

You'd also believe in the Easter Bunny if CCY told you it existed.

AA would crush US/HP at ORD if UA died. And DEN is too close to PHX and will create duplicate traffic flows, and still is too far from PHL/CLT to 'fill the gap' in the dumbell. Plus all that whining about PIT's costs... DEN is a real cheap airport to operate at.

Last I read the center of population of the US (geographically) was somewhere in southern Ohio (maybe it has moved though). Its not that far from PIT. PIT is not a midwest hub, but it is also not an east-coast hub. It is in a decent location for an airline depending where else they have hubs. It doesn't work with PHL and CLT hubs. It might work with other hubs.

 

[Cfm56]

Re: STL -- many of my friends at SWA, when they heard AA was reducing flights there a bunch, figured SWA would expand STL much heavier...but SWA didn't. When asked, SWA company people said the mid-west STL economy was too weak to support more flying.....companies are downsizing, etc there. One reason that AA downsized there. Doesn't sound like a good market for U/AWA to try to expand.

 

[ITRADE]

According to US Census information the population of St Louis in 2003 was 332,223 and declined from the year 2000 and the county of St Louis population is slight over 1,000,000.

So please show us how it is over 4 million if the entire state's population is only 5.7 million?

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way!

[post="269184"][/post]​

Well, the city of St. Louis, maybe. But St. Louis is more than just the city.

According to Census, the St. Louis MSA is home to 2.759 million people.

Less than the 4MM claimed by others, but a lot more than 332,223.

Remember also that the St. Louis MSA is not limited to Missouri. There are substantial population centers on the Illinois side of St. Louis.

 

[700UW]

According to the US Census Bureau the figures I posted were correct, 300K in the city and 1,000,000 in the county.

Are you saying the Government is wrong?

US Census Bureau info about St Louis