Of course not. Besides, if there are not enough available what is an agent supposed to do, xxxx one? But the captain can, and should refuse to take the passengers and A/C until time that it is safe and comfortable to do so. Simple really. I've done it many times and never called on it.
Customer service disaster in PHX waiting to happen ?
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Of course not. Besides, if there are not enough available what is an agent supposed to do, xxxx one? But the captain can, and should refuse to take the passengers and A/C until time that it is safe and comfortable to do so. Simple really. I've done it many times and never called on it.
It's always the company's airplane, period. All employees have areas of responsibility and we should respect each other when doing our jobs. But, in the end it is the captain that ultimately decides when to take the A/C.
Keroseneuser
Veteran
- Aug 9, 2011
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We are just talking about the a/c units installed on the jetways here right?
If so just run the APU, its's not rocket science.
The story about an east guy getting in an argument about jetway a/c connection i find suspect. I don't know a single eastie that would even concern him/herself with it. They would just go in and crank the APU.(Capt. or F/O if the Capt. is on the crapper or something) I suppose there might be some goober in the ranks somewhere that would get all worked up over it but if so I don't know him/her.
To me this is a non issue unless you happen to be on an aircraft that has the APU inop in PHX heat. In that case just hold off on boarding till somebody gets their head out of their rear and finds a portable cart. The ground crew is going to have to dig up a start cart in the process anyhow so not like they are not already going to be grabbing extra ground equipment.
Run the APU or hang out in the terminal until there is an aircart attached. Nothing to get all worked up about.
If so just run the APU, its's not rocket science.
The story about an east guy getting in an argument about jetway a/c connection i find suspect. I don't know a single eastie that would even concern him/herself with it. They would just go in and crank the APU.(Capt. or F/O if the Capt. is on the crapper or something) I suppose there might be some goober in the ranks somewhere that would get all worked up over it but if so I don't know him/her.
To me this is a non issue unless you happen to be on an aircraft that has the APU inop in PHX heat. In that case just hold off on boarding till somebody gets their head out of their rear and finds a portable cart. The ground crew is going to have to dig up a start cart in the process anyhow so not like they are not already going to be grabbing extra ground equipment.
Run the APU or hang out in the terminal until there is an aircart attached. Nothing to get all worked up about.
Wasn’t the FOM change to give the ground crew more authority when the a/c is at the gate.. AKA capt Wells
The PIC has the ultimate responsibility per the FARs, but that simply means s/he has a legal standign to refuse the aircraft for the flight. That does NOT in ANY way, shape, or form, authorize a pilot to give orders to anyone. That DOES, however, allow the pilot to refuse the flight or aircraft, at which point s/he will have to justify it to their superiors. If the company disagrees, well, then there's an FAR battle. The FOM, CSM, GOM, and all the other nifty manuals we have are ALL approved by the FAA as a condition of our Part 121 certificate. I'm reasonably certain that changes either need to be FAA approved or fall within some type of FAA scope for change.
If an aircraft is hot ground air should be requested by the PIC. If the PIC (or SIC or inflights for that matter) request PC air is to be connected. As far as the PIC goes that's policy, with the others it's just common sense. If PC air is not available, or not sufficient, the PIC (or SIC) should take action to start the APU and use the pakcs to cool the aircraft.
Why is this such an issue? Have air and the pilot wants ot? GIVE IT TO HIM! The rampers tell the pilot there is no air to be had? START THE APU! Simple. Done. Make it happen!
EDIT: Forgot to add that there WILL be a point that the packs can NOT keep up with the heat on some aircraft. These aircraft should be priorities for PC air.
If an aircraft is hot ground air should be requested by the PIC. If the PIC (or SIC or inflights for that matter) request PC air is to be connected. As far as the PIC goes that's policy, with the others it's just common sense. If PC air is not available, or not sufficient, the PIC (or SIC) should take action to start the APU and use the pakcs to cool the aircraft.
Why is this such an issue? Have air and the pilot wants ot? GIVE IT TO HIM! The rampers tell the pilot there is no air to be had? START THE APU! Simple. Done. Make it happen!
EDIT: Forgot to add that there WILL be a point that the packs can NOT keep up with the heat on some aircraft. These aircraft should be priorities for PC air.
Funny Thing, When an Aircraft sends his In Range message, he gets a Gate which also includes if Ground Power and PC Air is available. I cant tell you how many times a crew will call in once at the gate and ask WHY the air is not hooked up. Well if you bothered to READ the gate message, you would find the answer.
Crzipilot
Veteran
- Mar 23, 2004
- 906
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and I wonder how many times that msg comes on the flight deck that says. Pwr-N Air-N , and mysteriously when you pull up to the gate, Pwr gets hooked up and air gets plugged in, and then you get fifty dings on the FD and banging on side of a/c because the APU is running....
never happens right?!?!?
never happens right?!?!?
You are seeing one side of the equation.
Keroseneuser
Veteran
- Aug 9, 2011
- 860
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You would be very surprised how much of our gate info acars message is crap. About the only thing you can trust is the gate number, everything else is frequently wrong. i cannot count how many times the air and power info has been wrong. It either works but says it does not, or it does not work but says it does. had many times where the gate message tells us we keep the airplane, only to have a crew show up to relieve us of the airplane since it is being sent to a different destination etc.
I am sure some people don't pay attention to the gate message info, but on the other hand a lot of the time the info on the gate message is not correct either.
ChockJockey
Veteran
- Dec 18, 2008
- 1,393
- 1,350
You should tell them, I'm sure they'll appreciate the constructive criticism. It seems to me that when welding and electrical work is done hastily it ends up being done twice. I am glad that none of it is up to me.
The incident I referenced was in regards to the pilot insisting on using an air start cart to run the PACKs, which we're not allowed to do. I shouldn't have mentioned it. My bad.
The difficulty with the portable ground air units is finding a working one, and hoping it works sufficiently to cool the aircraft. They're hit or miss in this regard, but it doesn't much matter since there are only a handful of them. It's true, when the APU is working that's the better solution for cooling the aircraft but this leaves the jet bridges without any means of cooling, and being enclosed metal structures they heat up very fast in the sun. Boarding is challenging enough, boarding at 120 degrees is attempted murder.
The jet bridges owned by the city do have working ground air, these are the INTL ones on the high B's. I don't know if there's anything being done one the bridges Express uses. There are some 37 gates currently without ground air by my count.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
Over the years I've been in some pretty toasty jetways in PHX. It's nice to see an attempt to improve them but alas we also know how government contracts progress and that's a problem coming into the summer months.
Also are my fellow passengers that stupid not to realize that a connection through PHX is likely going to have a jet way with an unpleasantly high temp? I don't mind the Jet ways but a scalding hot interior now that get a letter because I've gotten sick several times when well meaning and customer focused pilots open the Air wide open and every particle known and unknown to man billows out for me to ingest.
Also are my fellow passengers that stupid not to realize that a connection through PHX is likely going to have a jet way with an unpleasantly high temp? I don't mind the Jet ways but a scalding hot interior now that get a letter because I've gotten sick several times when well meaning and customer focused pilots open the Air wide open and every particle known and unknown to man billows out for me to ingest.
blue collar
Veteran
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,241
- 901
? Govt contracts? CJ just said the ones owned by the city have working air, which would lead me to believe the ones owned by US don't.
Also, sick because the captain turned the packs on? Could just be your immune system..
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Thanks for the giggle. I think you're primed and ready to be an aviation consultant to "USA Today."
We must have missed the "wide open" switch. Sorry.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
I recall back when it was HP, getting on a plane with an ambient temp of 94 (according to F/A). Well we get airbourn pretty quick and I don't about any "Wide Open" switch or not but I have never seen an airplane cool off so fast. It was in the mid 60's inside when we landed in BWI and that fast I was already having a scratchy throat, Next morning I thought I was hacking up a lung.
On another note I may have been confused but I thought the contract was with the airport authority? If not then my bad.
Keroseneuser
Veteran
- Aug 9, 2011
- 860
- 645
Um.....at altitude the temperature is anywhere from -10 to -50 just 1/4 inch or so of aluminum from your sleeping head laying on the sidewall. The issue then is not cooling you off but keeping you from freezing to death!
