Council 41 Letter To Pilots

[BoeingBoy]

Clue,

Exactly. The 1113 letter the company offered was not worth the paper it was printed on.

Plus the other "drop dead" date - Jan 31, 05 - presumably 4-1/2 months after entering BK.

And the catch-all of voiding the 1113 letter if U is in danger of "suspend, discontinue, or materially reduce, its mainline flight operations".

Jim

 

[Dizel8]

Since it appears Ch.11 is more or less inevitable, be it the companys desire or the lack of a contract with the ALPA, IAM and the CWA, then why not walk away from the table now?

If ALPA signs off on the "landgrab" now, posters have indicated that there will not be access to selfhelp afterwards. The company has said they may not honor the contract past 60 days, not much protection there.

If they go Ch.11, they will be forced to show the judge, and hence everyone else, the whole transformation plan. At that point, the unions can then see if it holds water and whether or not they wish to participate or call it quits.

Seems to me, that you all are between a rock and a hard place.

I wish you all the very best of luck!

 

[TheLarkAscending]

The retirement is all that is important to people like Mwereplanes and older people........

DELETED BY MODERATOR-- you are one of those older people, whether you'd like to admit it or not. Betraying your union will probably follow you the rest of your days, old man. You seem to believe that being old is a disease, you thrust it upon Mwereplanes as though it is an insult to have aged and matured, and desirous of the retirement benefit due him that the union had previously negotiated. Well, Mwereplanes has matured and with that maturity came wisdom...which seems to have escaped some others approaching 50.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Lark, good observation. I guess ten years from retirment does seem like an eternity to some. They say 50 is the new 40 or something like that. Oh well, I guess it's time for somebody to dust off the military uniform and go back to doing commericials for the follically challenged.

 

[UseYourHead]

This debacle would be funny if not so serious. Post bankpupcy we will see the folks in support of the PHL and PIT reps in shock....

In NO scenario will going in BK be to our advantage with no agreement. These reps are misleading a group of angry pilots who love to hear what they are being told/promised, unfortunately they will hate the actual result.

Good luck to us all!

This letter is inaccurate. The efforts of the RC4, two of which are suing ALPA for multimillion dollars is claims over the DB Plan, is to not give in on the DC Plan. If they do, they will lose their lawsuit.

During Freshwater and Brookman's election they promised they would never prevent a vote, but that's what they did last Monday night on the company's proposal. During the meeting Brookman told the MEC that the body could not send out a proposal only a TA to the membership. Bill Pollock then asked both ALPA attorney's if that was true and the legal advisors said a company proposal could be sent out and there was a resolution permitting this action.

Therefore, the RC4 have denied the pilots to vote on their future and will thrust the company into bankruptcy. Not to worry though because once in bankruptcy the company can ask the court to furlough out of seniority according to ALPA's advisors.

Separately, NC Doug Mowrey told the company that day to raise the pay cut as high as necessary, but do not touch work rules.

The Council 41 (PHL) and Council 91 (PIT) letters are full of misinformation.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="177552"][/post]​

 

[MachPi]

I was wrong and in Machiavellian fashion, we have been lied to and deceived by our reps in Philadelphia.

Instead of Machiavelli, I'll invoke George Orwell and Neville Chamberlain

…even if the negotiated agreement is a far better and smarter deal…Why would they go to these weak and cowardly extremes while risking the entire airline? To save face and deflect criticism! Absolute cowardice and weakness! Intolerable cowardice and weakness!

"WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."

So what's it take to make a deal? Courage -- Courage and the will to negotiate.

Think about it. We enter bankruptcy without a promise by the company to waive their rights to file an 1113E action against our contract. What do we stand to lose?

"Peace in our time!"

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Wow, seems like the BOS, LGA, DCA & CLT reps had a Hitler youth rally and got you guys all fired up. For what? Who knows...

 

[hp_fa]

How about the new classic, "resistance is futile"?

 

[mwereplanes]

This letter is inaccurate. The efforts of the RC4, two of which are suing ALPA for multimillion dollars is claims over the DB Plan, is to not give in on the DC Plan. If they do, they will lose their lawsuit.

Interestingly the PIT Reps recalled Tim Baker as the Captain Rep because they did not get a vote on the DB Plan termination and their $2 million lump sum benefit.

The retirement is all that is important to people like Mwereplanes and older people, regardless of what it does to 30,000 people and their families. That's why he does not have the courage to identify him self and he is weak.

During Freshwater and Brookman's election they promised they would never prevent a vote, but that's what they did last Monday night on the company's proposal. During the meeting Brookman told the MEC that the body could not send out a proposal only a TA to the membership. Bill Pollock then asked both ALPA attorney's if that was true and the legal advisors said a company proposal could be sent out and there was a resolution permitting this action.

Therefore, the RC4 have denied the pilots to vote on their future and will thrust the company into bankruptcy. Not to worry though because once in bankruptcy the company can ask the court to furlough out of seniority according to ALPA's advisors.

Separately, NC Doug Mowrey told the company that day to raise the pay cut as high as necessary, but do not touch work rules.

The Council 41 (PHL) and Council 91 (PIT) letters are full of misinformation.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="177552"][/post]​

Once again a 320 letter full of conjecture and opinion and void of facts. The two letters from the PHL and PIT reps to their constituency are full of facts and devoid of opinion. I think we all know 320's credibility factor.

For the record, I do not NEED this job. I do not NEED a US Airways retirement. I am younger than 320 and senior to him with a number between 100 and 200. I have owned 3 businesses that have been sold at good profits. The fourth is doing quite well and we are in negotiations to sell that one as we speak. I have been a disciple of Robert Kiyoski for many years. I doubt 320 even knows who that is. And I have been preparing for this since Braniff in 1982. I choose to work here because of my seniority and working conditions. Were I in the seniority range of 320 I would have been gone years ago. My retirement is funded from Keough's and other plans from the Sub S corporations over the years. I guard my identity because of the managment retribution that would follow with my intense criticism of the incompetence in CCY. If that sounds like I am bragging I apologize. Those are, however, the facts.

I tell you all this to further erode 320's credibility. He NEEDS this job and thus he and his gang is willing to sell our careers down the river. He has no limit to what he is willing to give to fund the incompetence and I along with the other PIT and PHL pilots are finished funding it. The judge will now determine if the fools get any more. At that point many of us will leave U. And just so you rest easy, there will be no liquidation. Jim Schear would not have left the FAA if Lakefield and Bronner planned to liquidate. They plan to run it. With about 100 large mainline jets and 700 RJ's operatated by affiliates with contracted out everything, You can take that to the bank.

As for the other employees: They will have to make the same decisions we all make. I, or any other pilot, do not control their future. They control their own. If they depend on this management to assure their future they are fools. Just like 320 and his gang. There is no future here unless you are willing to work at walmart wages and absurd working conditions. And in 320's case, if you are willing to be a reserve copilot.

mr

 

[avek00]

Some thoughts:

1. IMHO, the scariest thing about all of this is that ALPA seems to be certain that US will file for Chapter 11. If US does indeed file, then serious discussion of a long-term contract is moot, as US Airways will likely not come out on the other side of a BK filing intact or even in recognizable pieces.

2. That said, ALPA is still better off going into BK with a new contract, or at least a tentative agreement awaiting ratification by the leadership, even if the Company does not issue a meaningful 113 letter. As United found out in its BK case early on, US will find it extremely difficult, even under relatively dire circumstances, to abrogate contracts for workgroups that have signed a deal, or that appear to be making a good-faith effort to reach a deal.

 

[mwereplanes]

The fact is that ALPA has tried to make a deal in good faith, the company has not. As split as we are even the disgraceful MEC chairman has acknowleged that fact. And the record of the NC will bear this out.

Whether that influences the judge will be a guess at best. But it is a moot point now. This company did not want an agreement or it would have one right now.

We will continue to negotiate in good faith, as before, when the C11 filing occurs. When those negotiations are ended then the judge will figure it out. And this airline will lose loyal employees and see a marked decline in work ethic as it attempts to alter ego this thing into some type of hybrid LCC with very few large jets.

mr

 

[WorldTraveler]

MR,
I commend you for making the financial preparations to deal with the inevitable end of your prosperous career. It is not a sin to choose a well-paying job and take advantage of the benefits it offers. It is a sin to believe that it will last forever and not plan accordingly since very little that is good in life lasts for long. The beauty of the human being is our adaptability and intelligence - attributes that allow us to manage in spite of the challenges that are thrown at us.

You have indeed determined the bottom line and I also commend you for being able to walk away. I tend to think that there will be many people who will simply walk away from USAirways when they try to impose such onerous terms on their employees. The company simply will not be able to adapt to the transition and still run an even remotely viable operation. Although individual people can endure almost limitless change and adapt, there is a limit of adaptability for organizations; USAirways has vastly exceeded that threshold.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yes, he is elected by senatorial balloting. However, he is recalled by a rollcall vote.

[post="177525"][/post]​

Wrong.

(Don't you think the PIT and PHL reps would have done that months ago if that were the case? It's not on the agenda tomorrow.)

 

[PITbull]

Wrong.

(Don't you think the PIT and PHL reps would have done that months ago if that were the case? It's not on the agenda tomorrow.)

[post="177770"][/post]​

ny,

It only takes 2/3 to change the agenda of a special meeting for your FYI. And, the MEC Officers can be recalled on a roll call.

I see Pollock still sits on the USAirways Board. AFA was going to remove the MEC President as it was perceived as a conflict of interest for our negtiations. However, he chose to resign that day as he knew the support was not there for him to remain.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

This debacle would be funny if not so serious. Post bankpupcy we will see the folks in support of the PHL and PIT reps in shock....

In NO scenario will going in BK be to our advantage with no agreement.

Wrong. The scenario in BK is not clear. What IS clear is a 7 year, almost decade, giveback contract to a bunch of incompetents is not called for. What happened to the "partnership" with management. I am sorry to say it turned into a date rape. Stand tuff guys and gals, we are not dealing with honest people. Maybe, and maybe not, the judge will sort this out. But our current situation leaves NO doubt...we cannot negociate (or as management would have it..NOT negociate) with thieves. Best. Greeter.