Consequences Of Section 1113

[BoeingBoy]

While I agree with funguy2 that outsourcing is neither intrinsically good or bad, there is something to consider in a few of the incidents cited.

I think most everyone would agree that AMR, U, etc have pretty good maintenance programs. Safeguards are in place, procedures set up, practices followed that are supposed to prevent incidents like those cited. Yet incidents like this will, and do happen. In effect, something falls through the cracks or humans are fallible.

Now transfer maintenance to the lowest bidder, where oversight is limited, safeguards (procedures, practices) may or may not be in place, and what can you expect.

My point is that quality maintenance is not error free, nor is it cheap. It would be interesting to know what a carrier like LUV spends per plane on maintenance vs AMR (little outsourcing) or U. In other words, does quality maintenance cost much less if outsourced, or are the big savings going to come from getting the lowest bidder (and getting what you pay for).

Jim

 

[E-TRONS]

My entire point was that when a company becomes obsessed with cost cutting and downsizing things tend to fall thru the cracks more often than not.

Funguy2:

I do not know what your hands-on knowledge of any third party aircraft maintenance provider is. But I can assure you that the media only hears what the company tells them.

our a/c 700 was making emergency landings due to incorrect maintenance procedures. At the same time David Castelveter was proclaiming that UAIR is happy with the quality of work from MAE. Do you know how many times that aircraft came inhouse on un-scheduled maintenance visits?
Loss of aircraft hydraulics and no flaps landing. Again, Castelveter says that it is not uncommon for aircraft to have emergency landings after a maintenance visit. What absolute rubbish!!!! Lies, lies and more lies!!!

If you think for a minute that quality flourishes in a system that penalizes the third party provider when the aircraft misses it's return to service date, than you are beyond naive. And that goes for anyone. The folks you need to speak with are the ex-employees of such places. They alone will set you straight.

So think what you want. System redundancy is only as good as the maintenance performed to those systems. This entire industry is in for a rude awakening when hull loss becomes somewhat routine in the near future. Keep on this present course of cheaper is better and you will most definitely get what you paid for.....a pile of crap <_< .

 

[funguy2]

My entire point was that when a company becomes obsessed with cost cutting and downsizing things tend to fall thru the cracks more often than not.

Funguy2:

I do not know what your hands-on knowledge of any third party aircraft maintenance provider is. But I can assure you that the media only hears what the company tells them.

our a/c 700 was making emergency landings due to incorrect maintenance procedures. At the same time David Castelveter was proclaiming that UAIR is happy with the quality of work from MAE. Do you know how many times that aircraft came inhouse on un-scheduled maintenance visits?
Loss of aircraft hydraulics and no flaps landing. Again, Castelveter says that it is not uncommon for aircraft to have emergency landings after a maintenance visit. What absolute rubbish!!!! Lies, lies and more lies!!!

If you think for a minute that quality flourishes in a system that penalizes the third party provider when the aircraft misses it's return to service date, than you are beyond naive. And that goes for anyone. The folks you need to speak with are the ex-employees of such places. They alone will set you straight.

So think what you want. System redundancy is only as good as the maintenance performed to those systems. This entire industry is in for a rude awakening when hull loss becomes somewhat routine in the near future. Keep on this present course of cheaper is better and you will most definitely get what you paid for.....a pile of crap <_< .

[post="170217"][/post]​

I understand there were issues with AC 700... Maybe MAE is not the best provider. Maybe it was something to do with AC 700 specifically. Maybe AC 700 was the first one, so the staff was still in a "learning curve." There are lots of possibilities.

Airlines with in-house maintenance still have problems, as demonstrated. Airlines with out-sourced maintenance have acceptable safety levels, as demonstrated. The key to outsourcing (for the airlines or anyone else) is oversight. If US Airways manages MAE well, understands the problems with the aircraft going to them, and gives them a reasonable completion date, then the situation should be fine. Having said that, I have little faith in US Airways management to manage anything. But that does not inherently make out-sourcing bad...

Boeing Boy made a valuable comment: You get what you pay for.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Boeing Boy made a valuable comment: You get what you pay for.

[post="170240"][/post]​

Unless you're talking about management. For what UAIR (and U before it) has paid, they SHOULD have gotten a better plan.

 

[Baja4U]

You are right , u get what u pay for !! But u must not have any experience in a/c maint , having worked for Timco on one of my lay-offs , u wouldnt even believe what goes on at those places . Hope u r not flying us jets when they outsourse all heavy maint !!!

 

[cavalier]

You are right , u get what u pay for !! But u must not have any experience in a/c maint , having worked for Timco on one of my lay-offs , u wouldnt even believe what goes on at those places . Hope u r not flying us jets when they outsourse all heavy maint !!!

[post="170245"][/post]​

Doesn't the FAA over see the operations?

Of course greasing the palm is not an impossibility.

Some of my friends from CLT who are now furloughed are at Timco. I know from what they told me, Timco has a very strange way of deciding who makes what, depends on how good you can negotiate I guess, strange.

 

[delldude]

Doesn't the FAA over see the operations?

Of course greasing the palm is not an impossibility.

Some of my friends from CLT who are now furloughed are at Timco. I know from what they told me, Timco has a very strange way of deciding who makes what, depends on how good you can negotiate I guess, strange.

[post="170248"][/post]​

Doesn't the FAA over see the operations?

they are terribly understaffed.(future for U mech's??)

 

[700UW]

75% of the airplanes that MAE overhauled had abnormal maintenance problems out of MAE and it has been reported to the FAA.

Aircraft 707UW was released from an S-1 Heavy Maintenance visit with ST Mobile Aerospace . The aircraft flew non-revenued from BFM to CLT where it re-joined the active fleet that day.

707UW made One (1) revenued flight from CLT to MSY (New Orleans La.) where emergency landing procedures were taken due to a drop in hydraulic pressure followed by only a partial extension of the flap system on appraoch to MSY.