Chicago Teachers Want a 30% Pay Increase Over Next 2 Years!

[Dog Wonder]

Check the accreditation organizations you cited. They are all private.

Maybe you and Sparrowhawk can get Southwind into your daisy chain, he's into that stuff.

 

[Ms Tree]

What about the tax dollars they pay to a public school?
It is their choice to have their portion fund their child in a school of their choice.
They are not subsidizing in any way, they are paying a tuition.
Simply getting the best bang for thier tax dollar buck.
Unionized teaching hasn't got the best rap going.

Would you like to apply that line of reasoning to the military as well? Public education is for the public good. I do not have children and I pay property tax of which a large portion goes the school district. I have no issue with that what so ever. If someone wants to play extra and place their child in a private school or home school them go for it. I do not think it should affect ones obligation to pay taxes which fund the public schools.

I agree that the schools are not run very efficiently but that is the system we have and thus far I do not see anyone coming up with a better idea that does the same function. Just like the Post Office, it is not very efficient and that is by design. Fed ex can pick and choose its routes based on profit. The US postal service does not have that luxury because it would cut off huge portions of society from service. Some would argue good riddance. I do not think that is a good solution. Some times, the government needs to do things that are right but may not be profitable. Am Trak is another example.

 

[delldude]

Check the accreditation organizations you cited. They are all private.

Maybe you and Sparrowhawk can get Southwind into your daisy chain, he's into that stuff.

But regulated in licensing and accreditation standards by US Dept of Jimmy Carter.

 

[Ms Tree]

Except as I pointed out there really is no such thing as a true private school. A truly private school could define its own course of study. They can't today as they must be accredited by?????? The Government. Now they may be privately funded but they are government indoctrination camps as surely as any public school.

We are supposed to all in favor of diversity yet according to the government we must educate our children according to a prescribed notion of what knowledge is required regardless of personal faith and a host of other reasons.

When it comes to public schools I want RESULTS not reasons why things aren't improving and if we can't get them with the current crop of educators then perhaps we need to evict the current educational regime and replace it with one that will deliver results.

OH horse crap as already shown. With out a standard by which an education can be based, the diploma is worthless. To argue that standards mean something is not private is such a load of crap. Nearly everything built in the US has some sort of standards that it has to abide by. Horse power ratings are standardized. Measurements are standardized... and the list goes on.

 

[muff daddy]

Would you like to apply that line of reasoning to the military as well? Public education is for the public good. I do not have children and I pay property tax of which a large portion goes the school district. I have no issue with that what so ever. If someone wants to play extra and place their child in a private school or home school them go for it. I do not think it should affect ones obligation to pay taxes which fund the public schools.

Military is off topic.
More and more are wanting to get their children a better education and they are not getting their monies worth from unionized schools. You should have a say so on how your taxes are distributed. And if you are paying school taxes you should be able to pay them to the school of your choice if your local district is lousy. If enough people opted for this solution, maybe, just maybe unionized school districts would step up to the competition.

 

[tom barry]

Hey dell,
Speakin' of Pennsylvania and 'schools, I wonder how one of PA.'s favorite son's JERRY SANDUSKY is gonna' make out.
I'm guessin' someone's gonna' 'STICK it to HIM'.
Whadda' you think ????


On a side baseball note, It looks like the NEW YORK 'YANKEES'.......PORKED the ol' HOT-LANTA Braves ....A G A I N !! (6-4)
And to think the "PRIDE of the (baseball) SOUTH" was winning 4 to 0 going into the
8th. inning !

'OUCH' !! : ) : )

 

[Ms Tree]

I was just using the military as an item that we all pay taxes for regardless of if we agree with it.
I do not have any kids so I do not know how it works here in TX but I know that there are school districts that are more desirable than others and the good ones tend to being the more affluent counties. Not sure of the union status but since this is a right to work state I assume they are not.

I understand the idea of wanting to put your money to a better school but I do not see how that helps. Under the current system kids go to the school in their district. If we want to allow kids to go to the school of their choice regardless of location then I think I am all for it. Some districts will be shut down and other districts will have to expand. There is an issue of busing and transportation but that can be worked out I guess. Seems like it would be easier and cheaper to fix the schools that are broken.

My experience with unions would indicate that they will not step up. The problem I see is that unions have lost sight of the goal and are trying to screw management at the expense of the employees. Management has also lost sight of the goal and is trying to screw the union at the expense of the employee. They are getting it from both sides. They have set up an adversarial relationship and are getting it.

We the public do not seem to place a high value on teachers. We dump our kids off at school and expect miracles with little input from our end. Schools in my opinion are under funded especially in the inner cities. They need updated equipment, science labs, computer labs and the like. We need to create some sort of reward system for the teachers who want to teach and who are good at it. We need to get rid of the ones who do not want to teach and are bad. We need to pay teachers a good wage reflective of the responsibilities that they perform. They are teaching our kids. To me that is an invaluable task. I do not want to pay teachers market value, in my opinion that gets you market value which is not always the best quality. I would like to see teachers paid well above market value and I would like to see the standards well above market value as well.

And no I have no idea how to achieve that. I do think it is possible. If the sport leagues can attract the talent that they get, why can't we do the same for schools? How much is the future generation worth to us? Seems not very much by today's standards.

 

[eolesen]

Why can't schools attract talent? In part, because of the unions...

I was a high school teacher before coming to the airlines full time. Starting salary in the late 80's was ~22,000 in Chicago. The union in the district I went to work in had top-loaded the payscales so that most of the increases they got at the extortion table went to the senior and mid-level teachers.

Of course, you don't find that stuff out when you interview. You find out a few months into the job, and that's why you see such high turnover at the lower levels. It's a great second-income, but it's nowhere near a living wage.

Absent the union, pay scales could have been adjusted in a way that attracted and retained younger teachers. I saw that when we lived in TX and AZ, where the teachers unions had little to no negotiating power.

http://teachersunionexposed.com/

 

[Ms Tree]

That seems logical. I've never been a huge fan of unions and that is just one more reason why.

 

[SparrowHawk]

That seems logical. I've never been a huge fan of unions and that is just one more reason why.

If I were the negotiator there would be a strike LOL.

Because my opening remark would be:

30% raise over two years? Let me ask you, did test scores rise 30%? Oh they didn't, hmm, OK let's do this then. We'll give you the 30% but if the scores don't rise 30% your members have to refund all the increase less the percentage they did rise. If they slipped then you have to give that back too! How would that work for ya?

 

[Ms Tree]

I do not know that they do not deserve 30% raise. I would guess they probably do. I think most teachers are underpaid for their responsibility. The issues I have and would address are tenure and unions protection those.who should not be teaching. If they want the 30% I have no problem but tenure goes away and performance standard will be developed to ensure that the teachers are earning their money.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I do not know that they do not deserve 30% raise. I would guess they probably do. I think most teachers are underpaid for their responsibility. The issues I have and would address are tenure and unions protection those.who should not be teaching. If they want the 30% I have no problem but tenure goes away and performance standard will be developed to ensure that the teachers are earning their money.

The only reason they have ANY responsibility is because parents have abdicated their role to government civil servants who quite frankly don't give a rat's rear end if Little Billy can type his God Damned name so long as they get a pay day. You're not going to budge the NEA, AFT or the tooth fairy on tenure. This is why Scott Walker resorted to his ham handed tactics. There was no other way to break the stranglehold Public Employee unions (NEA, AFT in particular) have on states.

A performance standard would be a free market in education. Once parents have a choice that is at or near cost neutral, all schools will have to compete for business. The schools with the best scores will be able to attract more students. Standards would be raised for entry simply by the the good schools ability to have enough class space. The poorer performers would be forced to up their game or rish having to few students to absorb the infrastructure and would rightfully fail. As soon as they failed an upstrat company would jump in to assume their place and educational quality would be upgraded to attract more students.

For example, The Pinelands Regional School District spends $16,743 per pupil in current expenditures. The district spends 59% on instruction, 39% on support services, Test score wise they rank in the bottom third state wide. Can't even meet NCLB Act criteria. Avg Salary = $50K

Compare this to the school I went to in PA, The Central Bucks School District spends $10,339 per pupil in current expenditures. The district spends 63% on instruction, 34% on support services. This school district consistently ranks in the Top 100 nationally.The Central Bucks school board and the Central Bucks Education Association have approved a four-year contract that breaks up the infamous salary matrix, freezes all teachers’ salaries for the first year, reduces future pay raises and increases teachers’ health care contributions.

So as you can see salaries make precious little difference in performance as those taking a wage freeze deliver far better results. So perhaps Chicago should freeze or cut the salaries at under performing schools.

 

[Ms Tree]

Where do you come up with this cap that sending a kid to schools is an abdication of parental responsibility?

We have already been over the pay vs quality thing. I agree with you on some points. Not interested in rehashing it all over again.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Where do you come up with this cap that sending a kid to schools is an abdication of parental responsibility?

We have already been over the pay vs quality thing. I agree with you on some points. Not interested in rehashing it all over again.

It's crap, learn how to use spell check.

I've observed kids who have no guidance or parental involvement whatsoever. The parents expect the school to do everything. After all with the sky high taxes they pay they figure they're entitled to it. School is merely a babysitting service to some. It gives them time to score more crack. Don't think it doesn't happen because I lived it with my Junkie ex before she got gone..

 

[Ms Tree]

Critiquing spelling are we? The true sign of a bankrupt argument.

There are kids coming out of public schools that are going on to be teachers, doctors business people .. etc. There are exceptions to every rule.