Catering cuts effective 09/01/14

[737823]

if FC is nothing but upgrades, then it makes all the more questionable why it would be offered. LCCs manage to have loyalty programs without FC cabins.there really are people who pay to fly up in FC, including on int'l connections to/from Business class.and yes there are people who really pay for premium cabins on int'l flights as well.

AA F/C is not mostly upgrades on transcon routes at least, upgrades are few and far between. The Tempe team doesn't understand that AA has an offering people are willing to pay for-increased pitch and superior meal service over DL-but they are going to degrade the product and upset loyal customers like myself.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm agreeing with you, Josh.

There ARE people who will pay for a premium product regardless of the airline.

one of those airlines that you say has inferior catering to AA says their percentage of PAID FC passengers is at an all-time high.

If you give your product away all the time, you convince customers it isn't worth paying for.

 

[jimntx]

Maybe the airlines could do a "best of" catering deal with hub city restaurants. Get them to market their food to high end customers and AA could get some good quality meals at a discount price?

Actually, all the F/C meals on AA have been developed by world-class (and world-famous in some cases) chefs. For instance, Stephan Pyle who has had cooking shows on PBS for years has done a number of menu items for AA. His Dallas restaurants have included Baby Routh and Stephan Pyle's. At SP's dinner starts at $50pp before wine or other alcohol. And, it is worth every penny. The food is nothing short of incredible.

As to the statement that most F/C passengers are upgrades. That has not been my experience over the past couple of years, and I work F/C all the time. There was a time (pre- and during bankruptcy) where the statement had a certain amount of validity. Executive Platinums were (and still are) automatically upgraded to F/C on a space available basis. (I think there are a few restrictions, such as not eligible for upgrade if they are flying in coach on one of those rock-bottom priced, non-refundable tickets.)

However, upgrades are getting fewer by the day. On 3 legs yesterday, BHM-DFW, DFW-ONT, ONT-DFW, I had full f/c cabins, and only three or four of the passengers were upgrades. And, one of those was active military in uniform--now there's an automatic upgrade I think we can all agree is a good idea.

I've gotten some friction from Executive Platinums who did not get upgrades who just assumed that someone else was upgraded ahead of them. I told one of them that the only way to guarantee a F/C seat these days is to buy one. That was on a MIA-DFW flight with full F/C and only two of the passengers were even AAdvantage Club members, and those weren't even Platinum. All of the F/C passengers were full fare purchasers of F/C seats.
(You see, they didn't "look like" F/C passengers to the EP.)

 

[eolesen]

No restrictions on fare basis for EXP's as I recall, except that you can't auto-upgrade an award ticket (which is silly, since some of the award tickets carry a higher relative yield than a paid ticket).

I'm not surprised that there might be more paid F these days. The price difference isn't that bad in many cases:

 

[eolesen]

 

[jimntx]

I'm not sure what Choice, Choice Essential, and Choice Plus represent, but if they are all coach seats, I see no reason at all not to spring for the extra few dollars to have a F/C seat and a meal. I had no idea that there was so little difference in F/C and coach prices. I'm assuming, though, that this is only in the more competitive markets.

As far as the upgrade restrictions for EP, an agent told me that not all EPs in coach are eligible for upgrade, and she said something about the price of the ticket. A restriction would be understandable; otherwise, if you were going anyway, why not buy the cheapest ticket and try for an upgrade? That, of course, ignores what we've just been discussing about the lack of upgrades available.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Curious to see what the quality/quantity for these "baskets" and new entrees will be. Hector (Adler) has the right idea and echoes the majority of F/A's assertion that a new concept in feeding our premium passengers must be instituted. I am cautiously optimistic that it will be an improvement-In the 25 years I have been slinging hash and pimpen' Coke's at 35,000 ft. I have never seen such crap served in such a hodge podge manor..
 50% of my F/C trays return to me half eaten----consistently

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Curious to see what the quality/quantity for these "baskets" and new entrees will be. Hector (Adler) has the right idea and echoes the majority of F/A's assertion that a new concept in feeding our premium passengers must be instituted. I am cautiously optimistic that it will be an improvement-In the 25 years I have been slinging hash and pimpen' Coke's at 35,000 ft. I have never seen such crap served in such a hodge podge manor..
 50% of my F/C trays return to me half eaten----consistently

Hadn't heard Hector's name in a long time. I remember him from my NWA days.

A little off topic, but an interesting article from some years past:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2003/2003-04-28-flight-attendants.htm

""I was one of the first male flight attendants in the industry," Adler said.

In the late 1990s, when Northwest hired about 1,000 flight attendants a year, Adler said the airline looked for candidates with customer service experience, foreign language skills, pleasant dispositions, and the ability to work with diverse cultures and cope with pressure.

The pay for Northwest flight attendants is in the low $20,000 to high $40,000 range, depending on experience and hours worked.

In the golden age of aviation, Adler said, flight attendants didn't have meal service carts, so they got plenty of exercise walking up and down the aisles to hand-deliver meals. "Clearly, the airline services were more elaborate. I remember mixing a Caesar salad on the airplane from scratch." He also made eggs to order for American's first-class passengers on international flights.

Decades ago, some airplane cabins had the atmosphere of a bar, said Greg Riffle, 48, contract administrator for Teamsters Local 2000, which represents Northwest flight attendants. Riffle became a flight attendant for Southern Airways in 1979, three years after he graduated from college.

"On a lot of flights, it seemed the primary focus for most passengers was to see how quickly they could consume the maximum amount of alcohol between Point A and Point B and half of the people on the aircraft smoked while doing it," Riffle said. Now, alcohol consumption is much lower and smoking is banned in airplanes."

 

[WorldTraveler]

Curious to see what the quality/quantity for these "baskets" and new entrees will be. Hector (Adler) has the right idea and echoes the majority of F/A's assertion that a new concept in feeding our premium passengers must be instituted. I am cautiously optimistic that it will be an improvement-In the 25 years I have been slinging hash and pimpen' Coke's at 35,000 ft. I have never seen such crap served in such a hodge podge manor..
 50% of my F/C trays return to me half eaten----consistently

... which goes to show that it is very possible to serve decent quality food because it was done in the past.

Considering that food technology has advanced remarkably, it is all the more amazing that quality has gone down, highlighting that the human nose and taste buds can't be fooled into seeing less than quality food for anything other than what it is.

customers aren't fooled. Serve a few things done well than try to do much and do it all poorly.

and it also helps to have labor that actually cares between the flight kitchen and the customer in the cabin.

 

[eolesen]

I'm not sure what Choice, Choice Essential, and Choice Plus represent, but if they are all coach seats, I see no reason at all not to spring for the extra few dollars to have a F/C seat and a meal. I had no idea that there was so little difference in F/C and coach prices. I'm assuming, though, that this is only in the more competitive markets.

Choice is the lowest available fare
Choice Essential includes a free checked bag and Group 1 boarding
Choice Plus has all that plus no change fee, same-day standby or confirmed flight change, and a drink chit.

I specifically picked a couple different markets.

ORD-TUS has no competition whatsoever. ORD-DFW and ORD-MIA have somewhat meaningless competition (e.g. UA and DL RJ's to DFW, and lower frequencies).

ORD-LAX is truly competitive against UA in terms of frequency and equipment, and also has VX in the market. ORD-XNA is a somewhat captive market.

As far as the upgrade restrictions for EP, an agent told me that not all EPs in coach are eligible for upgrade, and she said something about the price of the ticket. A restriction would be understandable; otherwise, if you were going anyway, why not buy the cheapest ticket and try for an upgrade? That, of course, ignores what we've just been discussing about the lack of upgrades available.

That doesn't match the program rules:

500-Mile Upgrades (Complimentary)
AAdvantage Executive Platinum members traveling on any published fare, and AAdvantage Platinum® and AAdvantage Gold® members traveling on fares booked in Y or B (excluding military/government fares).

500-Mile Upgrades (Earned or Purchased)
AAdvantage Executive Platinum members upgrading companions traveling on any published fare, AAdvantage Platinum and AAdvantage Gold members traveling on any published fare, non-elite members traveling on fares booked in Y or B.

Those are just the "confirmed within 100 hours of departure" rules. There are different rules for mileage redemption upgrades and the 8 systemwide upgrades given to EP's -- those can't be used on military/government fares or any other fare where mileage does not accrue.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ORD-TUS has no competition whatsoever. ORD-DFW and ORD-MIA have somewhat meaningless competition (e.g. UA and DL RJ's to DFW, and lower frequencies).

DL does not currently fly ORD to DFW nonstop in any form.

However, Spirit does serve ORD-DFW nonstop; WN will serve DAL-MDW and VX will serve ORD-DAL.

 

[john john]

except that you can't auto-upgrade an award ticket (which is silly, since some of the award tickets carry a higher relative yield than a paid ticket).

Because you should use your accrued miles and give up what it takes to get to the first class ticket. Accrued miles are a liability
A free ticket is a free ticket is a free ticket

 

[eolesen]

The way it's structured, I view miles no differently than the rebate programs offered by Costco or the cash back on a Discover card.

When I've cashed out miles for an unrestricted coach award at 25K each way, you've already reduced the liability considerably more than had I used a 12.5K award.

If you're already giving that empty F seat away to someone for nothing, why does it matter if it was paid for using alternative currency?


That type of outdated logic (just cash out more miles...) is exactly why there's such an accrued liability. Most FF's do the math and see that it's cheaper to buy the ticket and hold onto the miles for those times when it's not cheaper.

AA wanted 25K per ticket when we flew my son and his wife home from their wedding a few years back. Tickets were priced at $160 each. 50K miles is worth a lot more than $320.

Lots of airlines outside North America have been filing their fares using miles as a form of currency. Maybe if AA and other local airlines did the same, that liability would start shrinking because award availability would essentially go away.

 

[737823]

Only a matter of time before the US legacies go to dynamic redemption.  I believe US DM currently allows upgrades on certain award tickets to Preferred members.  
 
Josh

 

[eolesen]

Agree, and it's certainly not a technology limitation. All you need to do is file private fares in a currency code that's used for internal purposes only. Doing it that way would also make it easy to collect the taxes and fees using miles. Gets annoying to have to always pay the PFC's with a card.