Bye bye Tulsa

[OldGuy@AA]

I do take the last two weeks off of the year and I bid that with my seniority.  I am concerned for those who do not have the vacation available and must take this time off without pay and without an opportunity to work.  Nobody likes to work on Christmas Day and New Years Day obviously, but they are two of the 5 holidays we still do get.  Previously Dec. 25th was one of the five days of shutdown so at worst people lost a total of 4 days pay.  This year it was a 6 day shut down so they lost a whole week of pay.  Someone I know personally had a death in the family in the fall and had to use their remaining vacation then.  Now a week without pay and no opportunity to work that week.  Quit thinking of me me me and look at the big picture.  This is not a good thing for some.  But you seem to think like a good TWU member.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Cry me a river, AA is so evil for FORCING you to be home at Christmas and New Years, I bet AA forced you to have Saturday and Sunday off too. Making you be off with your kids during their Christmas break, and then making you go to parties with your wife on New Year's Eve, how dare they.
Why don't you say what probably really happened, the local 514 president worked out a deal for Xmas break and sat, sun off decades ago and it always stayed in place.
Unless you think it's great punching in at work at 0600 on Xmas and New Year's Day morning, or you're kissing your wife happy new year at 2100 when you're walking out the door to go to work. Quite complaining and be thankful that your local took care of you.

Forcing anyone to take vacation time is never a good thing. I cannot understand any union ever agreeing to that. It is one thing to allow all who want it off.

What should have happened is anyone who desired to work should have been allowed to work on all days other than the holiday. There is always work to be done in a hangar.

 

[Flying low]

Forcing anyone to take vacation time is never a good thing. I cannot understand any union ever agreeing to that. It is one thing to allow all who want it off.
What should have happened is anyone who desired to work should have been allowed to work on all days other than the holiday. There is always work to be done in a hangar.

There is a list for a few selected people can work during the shut down. They work everyday of the shut down except for the actual holiday. I still say if the company wants to shut down that week, then shut it down.

 

[Duke787]

I do take the last two weeks off of the year and I bid that with my seniority.  I am concerned for those who do not have the vacation available and must take this time off without pay and without an opportunity to work.  Nobody likes to work on Christmas Day and New Years Day obviously, but they are two of the 5 holidays we still do get.  Previously Dec. 25th was one of the five days of shutdown so at worst people lost a total of 4 days pay.  This year it was a 6 day shut down so they lost a whole week of pay.  Someone I know personally had a death in the family in the fall and had to use their remaining vacation then.  Now a week without pay and no opportunity to work that week.  Quit thinking of me me me and look at the big picture.  This is not a good thing for some.  But you seem to think like a good TWU member.

If TUL were forced to take a vacation week the last week of February, then you might have reason to complain. Otherwise you sound like a union guy finding something to complain about "they're making be off for Christmas and New Years"

AA is a 24/7 operation, all stations should work a 24/7 schedule, including holidays, the planes don't make money sitting in a hangar.

Now back to the thread, is Tulsa taking a layoff this month?

 

[Duke787]

[quote name="Duke787" post="1050205" timestamp=

 

[OldGuy@AA]

If TUL were forced to take a vacation week the last week of February, then you might have reason to complain. Otherwise you sound like a union guy finding something to complain about "they're making be off for Christmas and New Years"

AA is a 24/7 operation, all stations should work a 24/7 schedule, including holidays, the planes don't make money sitting in a hangar.

Now back to the thread, is Tulsa taking a layoff this month?

Even you know that had Tulsa started from day one as a 7 day operation many of us would not be here.  We would be at the line stations.  Most of us are only here because of the weekends off.  Obviously we cannot agree and it is sad you can't understand the point.  Your hatred for overhaul is consuming you.  Line vs. Overhaul is what you are all about.  Why do you care if there are layoffs in Tulsa?  So you can gloat about it?  I won't respond to any more of your hate.  Good riddance

 

[dfw gen]

Even you know that had Tulsa started from day one as a 7 day operation many of us would not be here.  We would be at the line stations.  Most of us are only here because of the weekends off.  Obviously we cannot agree and it is sad you can't understand the point.  Your hatred for overhaul is consuming you.  Line vs. Overhaul is what you are all about.  Why do you care if there are layoffs in Tulsa?  So you can gloat about it?  I won't respond to any more of your hate.  Good riddance

i dont see where he is making an argument for line versus overhaul. i worked at afw and when i had the week off during the shutdown it was nice. definitely liked the idea. at the line its 24/7 period it is what it is. you know you are going to probably work the holidays. me personally if they offered an early out id say good riddance to aa.as far as im concerned there is more truth to his post then most care to admit.

 

[MetalMover]

Even you know that had Tulsa started from day one as a 7 day operation many of us would not be here.  We would be at the line stations.  Most of us are only here because of the weekends off.  Obviously we cannot agree and it is sad you can't understand the point.  Your hatred for overhaul is consuming you.  Line vs. Overhaul is what you are all about.  Why do you care if there are layoffs in Tulsa?  So you can gloat about it?  I won't respond to any more of your hate.  Good riddance

Is that they ONLY reason people decide to work and live In Tulsa? WEEKENDS OFF? I think there are less frivolous reasons why people decided to make  a life there.. Cost of living, quality of life for themselves and their families maybe?
Would you really be willing  to relocate to ultra high cost of living areas like NY and CA because you don't have weekends off? 
I know you were responding to DUKE787 regarding his feeling for OH, but you need to realize that for many many years, because of OH's absolute and massive voting numbers, things have been tilted in their favor with the line stations on the outside looking in.
Don't forget the TULSA ROLL CALLV OTE threat of contracts past.
You have to expect that it has left a really bad taste in many a line mechanic's mouth.
 
Kinda like how OH mechanics are feeling NOW with respect to increase in outsourcing and OH members numbers overall.

 

[Duke787]

Even you know that had Tulsa started from day one as a 7 day operation many of us would not be here.  We would be at the line stations.  Most of us are only here because of the weekends off.  Obviously we cannot agree and it is sad you can't understand the point.  Your hatred for overhaul is consuming you.  Line vs. Overhaul is what you are all about.  Why do you care if there are layoffs in Tulsa?  So you can gloat about it?  I won't respond to any more of your hate.  Good riddance

 
There is no line vs OH here, I'm just saying you shouldn't be complaining that you have xmas and new years off. I'm sure if you made a motion at your next union meeting saying that you want to work a 24/7 operation like the line stations, the company would comply with your request. 
 
I'm going to call BS on your "Even you know that had Tulsa started from day one as a 7 day operation many of us would not be here.  We would be at the line stations."   The cost of living and the fact that there are a lot of local OK mechs there makes that statement a stretch. 
 
Why do i care about TULE layoffs? AA announced that there will 300-400 layoffs, that effects every mechanic at AA. How dare you say I would gloat about a mechanic forced from their home or job. You need to take a deep breath and realize that we are all in this together. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Is that they ONLY reason people decide to work and live In Tulsa? WEEKENDS OFF? I think there are less frivolous reasons why people decided to make  a life there.. Cost of living, quality of life for themselves and their families maybe?
Would you really be willing  to relocate to ultra high cost of living areas like NY and CA because you don't have weekends off? 
I know you were responding to DUKE787 regarding his feeling for OH, but you need to realize that for many many years, because of OH's absolute and massive voting numbers, things have been tilted in their favor with the line stations on the outside looking in.
Don't forget the TULSA ROLL CALLV OTE threat of contracts past.
You have to expect that it has left a really bad taste in many a line mechanic's mouth.
 
Kinda like how OH mechanics are feeling NOW with respect to increase in outsourcing and OH members numbers overall.

Ok I'll explain once more.....  I hired in almost 29 years ago and moved from the east coast to Tulsa and stayed for the weekends off.  If it had been a 24/7 operation I would have bid back to where I am from years ago.  Of course at this stage of the game I could not do that as I am too old to relocate and now my kids all live in this area.  If you are pretending to not understand this then it does no good explaining it over and over again.  I am not alone.  Many who are here in Tulsa are not from here and could have bid to the line years ago.  I chose to stay for the weekends off so I could have a normal family life. I speak for myself and nobody else.  Yes a house would have been more expensive in Boston where I am from, but I could have done it 27 or so years ago.  The point is that I WOULD have done it had Tulsa been a 24/7 operation.  All of the people I know who worked here in Tulsa for a while and then bid to the line would never come back here.  NOBODY.  There are benefits to line and overhaul and I weighed those years ago and decided to stay in O/H.  Now you and others call for the end to Mon-Fri work week here which is the biggest reason I stayed.  Yes, Tulsa has always been a big voting block and they have voted in some bad contracts but I only have one vote and my vote is always the other way.  I am one of the 26% who voted no on this POS that passed by 50 votes.  If 100% of the line had voted no it would not have passed. So some of your fellow line guys voted yes.   No I don't like the outsourcing or the fact that 25% of overhaul are now OSMs.  But like I said I only have 1 vote.  I followed John Hewett around in his road show all over the Tulsa base and called him out on many issues.  I proved his way to be the wrong way at each meeting I went to.  I stood out by the front gate with a vote no sign all by myself on several occasions.  My picture was taken by local 514 and I was put on the naughty list.  I also stood out there with a bunch of guys who came up from Dallas.  I don't know what else I could have done to try to defeat this contract and it pi$$es me off that guys like you group me with the vote yes crowd.  What did you do to try to get a no vote?  Did you do anything?  Post what you want and try to justify attacks on me from you and your buddy Duke.  I did what I could and I should not have to explain myself to you or anyone else.  I am here in Tulsa because I decided to stay long ago.  I am not from here and do not agree with the local leadership that has called for all of this crap.  You think I am your enemy?  That is fine.  At this point I am done with people who want to continue the line vs overhaul crap.  This just gives the dark side all they need to continue to screw everyone.  Have at it.  I will not help you or Duke to continue any more of this.  Have fun bashing overhaul and how stupid we all are.  I will not comment on any more of this.

 

[Bob Owens]

Forcing anyone to take vacation time is never a good thing. I cannot understand any union ever agreeing to that. It is one thing to allow all who want it off.
What should have happened is anyone who desired to work should have been allowed to work on all days other than the holiday. There is always work to be done in a hangar.

Is that they ONLY reason people decide to work and live In Tulsa? WEEKENDS OFF? I think there are less frivolous reasons why people decided to make  a life there.. Cost of living, quality of life for themselves and their families maybe?
Would you really be willing  to relocate to ultra high cost of living areas like NY and CA because you don't have weekends off? 

Frivolous? Weekends with days adds a lot to quality of life I would say. Over the years I've heard of many people relocating there for the quality of life that a normal work schedule brings, the cheap housing was a bonus. Had steady days and weekends been available in New York they probably would have moved there.

I can say that during regular negotiations once the company backed off on the 1/7th rule Hewitt was ok with the deal. Apparently yes weekends is a big deal and its why many who are in Tulsa are not from Tulsa, my guess is these transplants make up most of the 26%.

I can understand his position based upon principle and yes its wrong for the company to dictate they take the week off , but compared to the other wrongs we have allowed AA to do this is one most of us on the line would not mind if they were to do it to us. I suppose if I were Jewish or some other faith that did not Celebrate Christmas I'd be pretty pissed if I was forced to take a week off that was peak travel season. So yes he is right, but even though he is right his argument isn't likely to gain much sympathy from guys who have to work the Holiday for four hours pay. Forcing guys to take Christmas week off pales in comparison to forcing guys to work Christmas for half pay. But No need to get mean about it, his position is based on sound union principles , where he is located that type of thinking puts you in the minority.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Again you put it in to words much better than I can Bob.  But I do understand that guys who are regularly required to work holidays would really enjoy to get Christmas off.

 

[MetalMover]

Frivolous? Weekends with days adds a lot to quality of life I would say. Over the years I've heard of many people relocating there for the quality of life that a normal work schedule brings, the cheap housing was a bonus. Had steady days and weekends been available in New York they probably would have moved there.

I can say that during regular negotiations once the company backed off on the 1/7th rule Hewitt was ok with the deal. Apparently yes weekends is a big deal and its why many who are in Tulsa are not from Tulsa, my guess is these transplants make up most of the 26%.

I can understand his position based upon principle and yes its wrong for the company to dictate they take the week off , but compared to the other wrongs we have allowed AA to do this is one most of us on the line would not mind if they were to do it to us. I suppose if I were Jewish or some other faith that did not Celebrate Christmas I'd be pretty pissed if I was forced to take a week off that was peak travel season. So yes he is right, but even though he is right his argument isn't likely to gain much sympathy from guys who have to work the Holiday for four hours pay. Forcing guys to take Christmas week off pales in comparison to forcing guys to work Christmas for half pay. But No need to get mean about it, his position is based on sound union principles , where he is located that type of thinking puts you in the minority.

Sorry, I don't buy the theory that people will uproot their families and their lives and even leave immediate family relations to move to a place JUST to have weekends off. I'm not saying that that is NOT important to people, but I do not think that is the end all factor. 
I believe cost of living is a bigger factor which in itself results in a better quality of life. One example would be a mechanic being fortunate enough to have the wife stay home if she chooses to raise a family.
 
Tell you what Bob, what would you rather do? Pay a few thousand dollars a year in property taxes, pay less money for a larger home and property and pay a fraction of insurance rates with weekends off or pay $14000 a year in property taxes, pay more money for a smaller home and property taxes and outrageous car insurance rates and weekends off and not uproot your family?
 
As for the TULSA vs line issue, you should know better than just about anyone else how the line stations fared under the dominant TULSA voting bloc. So please don't claim that MY thinking is in the minority.
 
I have personally spoken to quite a few Tulsa mechanics up on field trips over the years who blatantly told us if we don't like what Tulsa has, move to Tulsa. 
 
FWIW, I do not believe an OH mechanic should be paid less than a line mechanic. But I do believe in GEO pay.
FWIW, I do not wish to see TUL disappear as I am against ANY outsourcing.
FWIW, I have NOTHING against OH mechanics. But let's be honest how the mighty TUL voting bloc, namely the local leadership, looked at line maintenance as being of lesser value.
Do you need anyone to remind you of your struggles with 514 presidents of years past?

 

[bigjets]

The only good thing about not having AMFA as our union, is the fact that IF TUL takes a bunch of layoffs, the TWU was in charge, and AMFA cannot be blamed.

 

[paul1]

moving your family to tulsa is just like teaching your kids to become cubs fans
 
pure @&!$ @&*$%