Busy couple of months for AMFA Organization's

[WeAAsles]

So from reading this story when AMFA replaced the IAM in 1998 they represented 1000 “Human Beings” including AMT’s and Cleaners. According to AMFA’s own webpage today though they represent 40% less workers for a total in the 600 range. The big cut obviously being in 2004 when they lost both their OAK Base and their Cleaners (They didn’t want the cleaners anyway)

Kev I have yet in their entire History to today to read any story of growth when AMFA is the bargaining representative. Can you “PLEASE” direct me to one story in the Airline Industry where “today” AMFA has been a success at any Airline they are embedded with?

The Militant - 5/11/98 -- Craft Union Voted In At Alaska Airlines In Seattle

 

[WeAAsles]

This chart is a current negotiation status at SWA for Union represented groups. The chart is for groups currently in negotiations and how long other groups who have a current contract took to gain their contract.

AMFA Mechanics took 81 Months (Before Covid)
IAM CSA took 55 Months (During Covid and Contract ratified)
TWU FA’s have been negotiating for 52 Months (During Covid)
SWAPA have been negotiating for 36 Months (During Covid)
TWU Ramp have been negotiating for 23 Months. (After Covid)

Now let’s also not forget that all of 2020 and most of 2021 negotiations were put on hold for the Coronavirus Pandemic. So I would deduct about a year and a half from all the during Covid talks.

AMFA Negotiations stretched the longest from 2012 to 2019 almost 7 years before the Covid Pandemic.

FACTS……

 

[Kev3188]

IAM/AS CBA was violated and the IAM won in arbitration

AMFA/AS CBA permitted the closing of OAK, thereby AMFA had zero recourse.

Not that hard to comprehend what transpired.

What’s still hard for to comprehend—even after all these years— are the lengths a so called union man will go to defend the destruction of his industry. You’ve put the organization before the people. That stain doesn’t wash off.

You wanna call McGee a win? Knock yourself out. We all know better.

 

[CorvetteMan]

What’s still hard for to comprehend—even after all these years— are the lengths a so called union man will go to defend the destruction of his industry. You’ve put the organization before the people. That stain doesn’t wash off.

You wanna call McGee a win? Knock yourself out. We all know better.

Reading comprehension not your strong point?

Arbitrator rules Alaska Airlines broke union contract when it outsourced baggage handling

Three years after more than 480 Alaska Airlines baggage handlers at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport were replaced by lower-paid staff working for an outside vendor, a federal arbitrator ruled Alaska violated its contract with the Machinists union in outsourcing those jobs.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[WeAAsles]

What’s still hard for to comprehend—even after all these years— are the lengths a so called union man will go to defend the destruction of his industry. You’ve put the organization before the people. That stain doesn’t wash off.

You wanna call McGee a win? Knock yourself out. We all know better.

Destruction of his industry?

I think you’re over exaggerating just a little. Airlines are one of the most heavily unionized businesses in the Country. Talking about just Fleet alone whether we like it or not there are the Majors and the Minors just like Baseball.

Yes the McGee ruling sucked. What Frontier did to their entire in house airline staff besides Pilots and FA’s also sucked. But Frontier is a rinky dink ULLC. And the passengers that fly on them get what they pay for.

So stop beating around the bush. What’s your point?

Do you think if the IAM got in at Delta that Delta would do that to you? Damn good chance they would. Especially in small cities where there isn’t a large staff. We know there’s no such thing as status quo either.

I think that’s why you take the approach that you do. You know deep down that you have better job security if no union ever gets in for your group. In other words you’re afraid of what Delta could do to you.

Am I wrong?

 

[CorvetteMan]

Destruction of the industry will be the non-union major airline industry employees’ who refuse to unionize.

 

[WeAAsles]

Destruction of the industry will be the non-union major airline industry employees’ who refuse to unionize.

As Airlines get larger like say if JetBlue and Spirit merge the chips will begin to fall. Some may take longer than they should but depending on how the particular Airline treats their workers they will eventually sign on. JetBlue merged will need to decide between the AFA and TWU. Either way they’ll still be organized though. JetBlue Ramp was a disappointing loss but they may have a second chance to bite the apple with Spirit Ramp being represented by the IAM?

Delta is the outlier because for the most part they do treat the majority of their employees quite well. Over time I had to admit that fact. Even besides the 25% paycut for 2020. Of course the Unions always nipping at their heels is big time why they are treated well. Delta workers take advantage of that fact and we dues payers at the other Airlines bear the expense of those never ending campaigns. IMO the money is nothing but a black hole and I’m very happy my TWU doesn’t step into that muck.

And BTW before Kev jumps all over me that absolutely doesn’t mean I don’t support them ever gaining representation if they ever “really” wanted it (They don’t) but maybe we all ride each others coattails. I seriously want Delta to treat them like special little Princesses so we can argue to get whatever they get/got too.

And not a dime of my (TWU) dues has to be spent on supporting them getting it.

 

[CorvetteMan]

And how many decades have unions tried to organize a certain Airline in ATL?

The IAM at Spirit is smaller than the employees on the ramp at B6, you’d have to get A-Cards signed to call for an election.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW since this is an AMFA related thread it always strikes me as curious why they never try to step into that Atlanta yard? Too many former NWA AMT’s telling that horror story to the next generation or something else?

 

[WeAAsles]

And how many decades have unions tried to organize a certain Airline in ATL?

The IAM at Spirit is smaller than the employees on the ramp at B6, you’d have to get A-Cards signed to call for an election.

Absolutely. Decades. The AFL/CIO tenant has the Unions basically forced to keep going for that prize though. There’s not enough low hanging fruit in the Industry for them to satisfy the cost.

But let’s talk about Kev and why he really doesn’t want a Union but always straddles that fence being aloof about his support.

On April 1 Kev is going to be making $37.26. That’s a Base of $77,500. Now add say $5000 for his Holidays and another conservative $5000 for his 401K Contribution/Match. That’s $87,500 for the year with no extras.

On top of all that add in a few extras and Profit Sharing and he can easily top $100,000

Why would he want to run the risk that the IAM gets in and Delta decides to outsource his Station prior to any CBA language being negotiated? I have to say I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ if even I would take that risk? And especially if I’m also treated respectfully in my tiny little Station. (It definitely is a different World in small stations over Hubs)

And yea I know about the ridiculous mountain that needs to be climbed to reach that 50% + 1 threshold. I think we’ve covered that a million times on these boards.

 

[CorvetteMan]

But hadn’t lifted a finger to assist in the drive and ran from a hub to a small out station.

He’s a fraud, he makes people think he’s a “good” union man. It’s all a facade and act.

 

[WeAAsles]

But hadn’t lifted a finger to assist in the drive and ran from a hub to a small out station.

He’s a fraud, he makes people think he’s a “good” union man. It’s all a facade and act.

Well I will say it would be nice if he was more firm about whether or not he supports or doesn’t support. Personally I do think he supports Unions in general but just not really in his own House.

I think if Kev was secure in the idea that gaining representation came with no risks and there was a definite financial upside to the prospect he would be all in. But the facts are that he’s got quite a lot of comfort being wrapped in those non union arms.

But society frowns on expressing selfishness publicly. So why it’s better to wear a mask and continue to exhibit the illusion.

 

[CorvetteMan]

He’s an IGM, who hides that fact.

 

[Kev3188]

Am I wrong?

Yes, as usual.
The risk isn't being represented or not. The risk is in having the wrong people at the table.


And let me save you a lot of typing here: If we get farmed out, I'll most likely retire.

BTW since this is an AMFA related thread it always strikes me as curious why they never try to step into that Atlanta yard? Too many former NWA AMT’s telling that horror story to the next generation or something else?

Maybe? PMNW AMTs were working under an imposed agreement at merger time. In that context, declining representation was an easy choice (PMDL AMTs were light years ahead on just about any metric you want to pick). Plus, most of the honorable never made it that far. They were long gone by 2011.

But hadn’t lifted a finger to assist in the drive and ran from a hub to a small out station.

He’s a fraud, he makes people think he’s a “good” union man. It’s all a facade and act.

Man, you are really bad at this. But do tell; which hub did I work in during any of the drives. Seriously, go ahead & share it. Dates too.

P.S. Working in a hub during a drive is infinitely "safer" than being in a line station. But you know that already.

You can try and throw dirt, but it's not me posting McGee as a win while also trying to lord Aeroman over another poster. Those are two sides of the same coin. You don't get to have it both ways because one has dues checkoff.

Not me describing crossing a picket line as a "smart move," either.

Carry on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, as usual.
The risk isn't being represented or not. The risk is in having the wrong people at the table.


And let me save you a lot of typing here: If we get farmed out, I'll most likely retire.

There is no such thing as having the wrong people at the table. Indirectly you do vote for those people who are there. And ultimately you do get to decide on what passes or not.

Take SWA PSA and IAM 142. They recently voted no to not one but two offers before they found the third acceptable.

Can an Airline wait it out and break the resolve of the membership? That’s another story.

On being farmed out. I don’t push the fear button. Life is a challenge full of risks and decisions.

Maybe? PMNW AMTs were working under an imposed agreement at merger time. In that context, declining representation was an easy choice (PMDL AMTs were light years ahead on just about any metric you want to pick). Plus, most of the honorable never made it that far. They were long gone by 2011.

Honorable or plain stupid is debatable depending on how you want to view that story. Didn’t William Wallace also have his head chopped off?

And so in other words you’re saying that the non union AMT’s at Delta being light years ahead of those poor AMFA represented souls had the keys to Paradise compared to those who stayed out shivering in the cold?

Your own comment kind of makes it a no brainer for those who scabbed and went to work at Delta.

P.S. Working in a hub during a drive is infinitely "safer" than being in a line station. But you know that already.

So in other words fear keeps you muzzled and sedated? You don’t want to be the next Kip Hedges.

I can understand that. You have others that need to rely on you for their comfort and safety.

Maybe some birds actually enjoy being in their gilded cages. Lots of Eagles and Hawks out there looking to snatch a meal.

You do have a very good gig where you are IMO. (Not counting that Winter 🥶 Weather I mean)