Bronner Tells Usa Today Bankruptcy Could Occur
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
mbmbbost said:
Yes, that’s what I and others have been asking the captain.
You see, my posts provoke a response no matter the response but a response nevertheless and what, why this forum exist. You don't like me or my opinions and I have thick enough skin not to care, and I don't in the least because you nor any poster feeds my family and pays my bills. I see things differently then the crowd, and I thank the Good Lord above everyday he lets me in on his light so I don't stumble in the dark like I see a lot of others doing.
ff:to much time to quit said:It sounds like your referring to the 320 captain.
[post="168301"][/post]
I KNEW someone would say that. We're ALL capable of filtering through what is said by several posters over and over, and discerning what we think makes any sense at all, including the captain's posts. I just don't see why people need to express the same toxic attitude over and over, at the same time they're claiming to have risen above all this. It's fine to disagree and discount, but I think repeating basically the same negative chant reveals one to be a close-minded fanatic.
- Banned
- #170
USA320Pilot said:
Bruce Lakefield is a liar or are you? You can call GVP Robert Roach's office and ask him yourself.
The IAM is not going to open its contract. You can also ask Acting President and Directing General Chairman Tom Higgenbotham of District Lodge 142 as I was with him also.
And last week at the District Lodge 142 E-Board meeting the same stance was reitertated also, no concession, the contract will not be open.
And two weeks ago at the LAC meeting, GC Tony Giammarco reiterated to Lakefield, Glass, Mckeen and Crellin that the IAM Mechanic and Related WILL NOT open our contract.
See 320, I am in on the inside, you are on the outside. And your track record speaks for itself.
But I would not expect you to tell the truth anyhow.
- Banned
- #171
Bob,
The company in 1992 took 40% of all full time ramp and customer service and made them part time, which made their family medical jump to like $300 a month.
The following was eliminated from them also:
Vacation
Sick time
OJI time
Pensions was frozen and no pension plan was replaced
Express work was farmed out
Catering farmed out except at the hubs
Mail and Cargo farmed out
Massive layoffs
Paycuts imposed
Hours cut to 25 a week instead of 40
That about sums it up I believe.
The company in 1992 took 40% of all full time ramp and customer service and made them part time, which made their family medical jump to like $300 a month.
The following was eliminated from them also:
Vacation
Sick time
OJI time
Pensions was frozen and no pension plan was replaced
Express work was farmed out
Catering farmed out except at the hubs
Mail and Cargo farmed out
Massive layoffs
Paycuts imposed
Hours cut to 25 a week instead of 40
That about sums it up I believe.
High Iron
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 495
- 0
I KNEW someone would say that
Just like we all KNOW what a certain poster will say.
We're ALL capable of filtering through what is said by several posters over and over, and discerning what we think makes any sense at all, including the captain's posts
Insert attempt at middle-of -the-road open mindedness/rationality.
I just don't see why people need to express the same toxic attitude over and over...
"Toxic" is strictly a matter of perspective, and an obvious attempt to frame a debate in your own terms. Anyone else can say the same about opposing viewpoints of other posters...but you don't refer to them as "toxic" as they reflect your general view, do you?
...at the same time they're claiming to have risen above all this
Never really saw that. Sounds like an attempt to point out hipocracy where it does not exist as stated.
It's fine to disagree and discount...
Insert yet another proclamation of neutrality....
...but I think repeating basically the same negative chant reveals one to be a close-minded fanatic
"Negative", "naysayer"... whatever. Frame the debate on your terms and everyone else is a naysayer; how convenient! Repeating the same stockholm syndrome chant sounds every bit the part of the closED-minded fanatic as well.
At least some of the acid-tongued CCY types come in with guns blazing and let everyone know exactly how they feel without the "on the one hand this-on the other hand that" equivocation of how they feel about the front line types...Clarifies the debate nicely.
Just like we all KNOW what a certain poster will say.
We're ALL capable of filtering through what is said by several posters over and over, and discerning what we think makes any sense at all, including the captain's posts
Insert attempt at middle-of -the-road open mindedness/rationality.
I just don't see why people need to express the same toxic attitude over and over...
"Toxic" is strictly a matter of perspective, and an obvious attempt to frame a debate in your own terms. Anyone else can say the same about opposing viewpoints of other posters...but you don't refer to them as "toxic" as they reflect your general view, do you?
...at the same time they're claiming to have risen above all this
Never really saw that. Sounds like an attempt to point out hipocracy where it does not exist as stated.
It's fine to disagree and discount...
Insert yet another proclamation of neutrality....
...but I think repeating basically the same negative chant reveals one to be a close-minded fanatic
"Negative", "naysayer"... whatever. Frame the debate on your terms and everyone else is a naysayer; how convenient! Repeating the same stockholm syndrome chant sounds every bit the part of the closED-minded fanatic as well.
At least some of the acid-tongued CCY types come in with guns blazing and let everyone know exactly how they feel without the "on the one hand this-on the other hand that" equivocation of how they feel about the front line types...Clarifies the debate nicely.
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
The airline cannot operate if the IAM-M exercises self-help en masse. Simply won't happen. The IAM knows it, CCY knows it, heck even ALPA knows it (or the safety committee does, anyway).
IAM-M members can find work at comparable or greater rates of pay outside the airline industry. Their pensions (unlike the pilot group) will be covered almost completely by the PBGC if the company attempts a distress termination. Same for the AFA.
Had Bronner not gotten greedy and stupid with the Airbus thing, the situation might not be what it is today. When the IAM-M walks (and knowing the AFA, the refusal to cross the IAM line), Bronner will indeed find out that the restructuring just won't go forward "without employees."
Either S1113 works as designed post-Lorenzo or US is the next Eastern. It's a sad state, but that's what will happen.
Ultimately, all the rest of this blustering and "painful clause" stuff is motivated by those who have the most to lose. And the transparency of that effort is amazing (almost alarming when you consider ALPA's stated stance on such things).
IAM-M members can find work at comparable or greater rates of pay outside the airline industry. Their pensions (unlike the pilot group) will be covered almost completely by the PBGC if the company attempts a distress termination. Same for the AFA.
Had Bronner not gotten greedy and stupid with the Airbus thing, the situation might not be what it is today. When the IAM-M walks (and knowing the AFA, the refusal to cross the IAM line), Bronner will indeed find out that the restructuring just won't go forward "without employees."
Either S1113 works as designed post-Lorenzo or US is the next Eastern. It's a sad state, but that's what will happen.
Ultimately, all the rest of this blustering and "painful clause" stuff is motivated by those who have the most to lose. And the transparency of that effort is amazing (almost alarming when you consider ALPA's stated stance on such things).
Justaramper
Advanced
- Dec 15, 2002
- 218
- 0
700..
Your a little off on what happen in 1992...
Pension was froze and replaced with a 401K base and matching
Express work was taken
Local Freight was farmed out in 1994, but still kept a Fright Transfer
Sick Time was repalced by a PDO system
Most stations kept catering
Vacation was left alone
Never had any OJI time, except for those covered by IBT contract, which was taken
Part time hours were 6.5 hrs/day minus a 30 min lunch
Paycuts were inposed whem ALPA took some, we had NO choice in the matter
Health Benefits were cut and you had to pay if you weren't FT
Some very bad memories here...
Your a little off on what happen in 1992...
Pension was froze and replaced with a 401K base and matching
Express work was taken
Local Freight was farmed out in 1994, but still kept a Fright Transfer
Sick Time was repalced by a PDO system
Most stations kept catering
Vacation was left alone
Never had any OJI time, except for those covered by IBT contract, which was taken
Part time hours were 6.5 hrs/day minus a 30 min lunch
Paycuts were inposed whem ALPA took some, we had NO choice in the matter
Health Benefits were cut and you had to pay if you weren't FT
Some very bad memories here...
AgentOrange
Member
- Apr 19, 2004
- 31
- 0
700UW said:
OK, that's your choice (or the IAM's). USAir will then file for bankruptcy and the mechanics will be paid a lot, lot less then, potentially taking a much bigger hit for not negotiating than the pilots and others. Seems like you're comfortable with that. That's OK. Go with it. At least you have your dignity.
- Banned
- #178
AgentOrange said:
Apparently you have not read any of my posts and want to cherry pick, let me repeat this for you so you can understand.
The company wants to get rid of all utility, 1,008 of them all stock clerks, between 2,009 and 2,500 mechanics.
They want to get rid of GSE, Deicing, Base maintenance, shops, plant mtc and farmout everything.
So in your great words of wisdom, please explain why the decimation of maintenance should bring any IAM member wanting to vote themselves out of a job?
And please explain why you should trust the very same management that cannot honor current contract language that they agreed to and current management who squandered $4 billion on concessions so far from employees and vendors who have proven they have no clue on how to run an airline?
AgentOrange
Member
- Apr 19, 2004
- 31
- 0
700UW said:
That is why you open negotiations. Maybe you can get something that still ensures USAir's solvency and is not as difficult as management's original proposals.
Management did not squander $4 billion of concessions. The marketplace did not allow for higher RASM and oil prices rose. These issues are out of control of management. About the only thing you can blame management for legitimately is not cutting non-labor costs enough, a la American. But to make the one airline who has been noticeably successful in doing this (to the point of materially moving CASM) the model and demand it be replicated at your airline is unreasonable.
As for trusting these folks, you have no choice. You can blame each successive CEO (which begans to strain credulity to assume each different person is incompetent) or the management workers below them (which may be reasonable), but you have no good ideas to follow your irrational ranting and blaming.
- Banned
- #180
Lets see wasting millions on fighting the IAM and outsourcing work costs money.
Paying Siegel and Cohen $7 million is wasting money.
Declaring war on your employees costs money.
I can go on for days about how they waste money.
Apparently you are not an employee here.
Paying Siegel and Cohen $7 million is wasting money.
Declaring war on your employees costs money.
I can go on for days about how they waste money.
Apparently you are not an employee here.
