Blame the Unions!

[will fix for food]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 10:39:35 PM TWAFA007 wrote:

ALOHA,

"With a pay cut like that AA could afford to recall and expand."

ALOHA, 007

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[/blockquote]


It seems to me the emphasis is on eliminating excess capacity and not creating more. Now if, and that's a big if, UAL goes Chapter 7, there will be expansion opportunities, but until then.......

 

[WingNaPrayer]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 11:17:11 PM FA Mikey wrote:

69,778,500 and counting. This is how much money APFA flight attendants have saved the company, so far.
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[/blockquote]

Wow, that almost paid for the preferred health care, benefits and perks for the company's executive branch in 2002!

 

[1AA]

REPEAT AFTER ME:

It's all labors fault,
It's all labors fault,
It's all labors fault,
It's all labors fault,
It's all labors fault.

 

[TWAFA007]

Aloha,

My post here was not to imply that, "its ALL labors fault," but to point out that it is a two way street. Everyone has said its all mangement. "Carty should go." The truth is both have an equal stake in the outcome of their airlines survival and we ARE talking survival. Does anyone think that the AA Unions will be the 1st to actually work with management and give the concessions needed to keep AA out of bankruptcy? If history is any clue, no. Everytime an airline has asked for help the Unions balk and then the airlines have no choice to go bankupt or out of business. Look at EAL,PA,U,UAL,CAL,TWA and others.

Just this month the APFA took a pay raise as AA posted the largest lost of any airline in history, over $3.5 BILLION. All Carty had ask for was a wage freeze for the year. APFA said no. All I can see is history repeating itself.

ALOHA, 007

 

[FA Mikey]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 9:57:19 AM TWAFA007 wrote:

Just this month the APFA took a pay raise as AA posted the largest lost of any airline in history, over $3.5 BILLION. All Carty had ask for was a wage freeze for the year. APFA said no. All I can see is history repeating itself.

ALOHA, 007

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[/blockquote]
No AA flight attendants got a contract scheduled 3% pay increase. Mr. Carty did not ask for a 1 year wage freeze. AA is asking us to completely for go the contractual increase. APFA has not said NO, they are currently looking over the books with AA. They expressed a willingness to look at other avenues as well to reduce costs.

 

[TWAFA007]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 10:53:27 AM FA Mikey wrote:

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[/blockquote]
No AA flight attendants got a contract scheduled 3% pay increase. Mr. Carty did not ask for a 1 year wage freeze. AA is asking us to completely for go the contractual increase. APFA has not said NO, they are currently looking over the books with AA. They expressed a willingness to look at other avenues as well to reduce costs.

Aloha Mike,

Talk about doublespeak. You say AA ask to for go contractual increases. Then the APFA takes theirs. Then you say the APFA has not said no. If Carty asked and you take it anyway that IS saying no. Dont worry though I know that Carty will not ask the APFA to forgive any contractual increases any more. He WILL ask for pay cuts & work rule changes. Do you really think that AA can afford to pay the F/As the highest rate of pay in the indusrty? As I have said history will repeat itself.

ALOHA, 007

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[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 11:17:11 PM FA Mikey wrote:

69,778,500 and counting. This is how much money APFA flight attendants have saved the company, so far.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Why dont you enlighten the rest of the world how much the Flight Attendants cost the company when they called in sick in record numbers over the holidays and forced the company to take many delays and Pay contractual understaffing pay on many if not all flights.

my guess is you will not admit to that and it never happened

 

[FA Mikey]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 11:13:32 AM TWAFA007 wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 10:53:27 AM FA Mikey wrote:

--------------
[/blockquote]
No AA flight attendants got a contract scheduled 3% pay increase. Mr. Carty did not ask for a 1 year wage freeze. AA is asking us to completely for go the contractual increase. APFA has not said NO, they are currently looking over the books with AA. They expressed a willingness to look at other avenues as well to reduce costs.

Aloha Mike,

Talk about doublespeak. You say AA ask to for go contractual increases. Then the APFA takes theirs. Then you say the APFA has not said no. If Carty asked and you take it anyway that IS saying no. Dont worry though I know that Carty will not ask the APFA to forgive any contractual increases any more. He WILL ask for pay cuts & work rule changes. Do you really think that AA can afford to pay the F/As the highest rate of pay in the indusrty? As I have said history will repeat itself.

ALOHA, 007

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[/blockquote]
Let me try to explain this to you. I will type really, really, slow so even you can understand. AA signed a contract with APFA. They cant nor can the union arbitrarily alter it on a whim. They asked only weeks before a scheduled increase was to go in to place, if we would give it up.

AA knows our contract. Because they have a copy, and signed off on everything in it just like we did.

So if there is a change to be made. The governing body must decide whether or not to offer a vote to the membership to do just that.

Do you really think my 3% pay increase is what's killing AA?

 

[planemech669]

Quite true. The blame cannot be placed squarely on the Unions. Nor can it be placed squarely on management. Both saw good times, smelled the scent of money, lost little common sence there was left, forgetting that good times don't last forever, and ran rampant trying to snatch all there was.
A classic case of PPP=PPP.

Just remember: Even the deepest well will run dry if there is no rain. This is our rainstorm.

I blame the dot coms. Everyone else is!!

 

[FA Mikey]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 12:25:20 PM A77IGW wrote:

[blockquote]
Why dont you enlighten the rest of the world how much the Flight Attendants cost the company when they called in sick in record numbers over the holidays and forced the company to take many delays and Pay contractual understaffing pay on many if not all flights.

my guess is you will not admit to that and it never happened
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[/blockquote]
My guess is you are making this up. My guess is you have NO proof to back this false claim up. You show us something that proves there was a giant sick call out over the holidays. That AA had delays due to F/A's and that most if not all flights were understaffed.

 

[Mach85ER]

[/blockquote]
Why dont you enlighten the rest of the world how much the Flight Attendants cost the company when they called in sick in record numbers over the holidays and forced the company to take many delays and Pay contractual understaffing pay on many if not all flights.
my guess is you will not admit to that and it never happened
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A77igw
[/blockquote]
A77igw,
Quotes like yours convince me that AA could be headed to liquidation due to the incompetence and total lack of leadership from AA management. You have commented more than once on the sick use subject. A response is needed.

You're just a parrot A77igw, you just repeat whatever you hear from some manager walking by your SOC workspace. In fact out on the line, things were different. During the above mentioned period, 300 sailors went sick on the US aircraft carrier Roosevelt. Half the FA's on a US bound British Airways 747 flight checked into a hospital on arrival after getting sick. In some of my kids classes at school, only 1/4-1/2 were present. Some of the remaining pulled the projectile vomit move. I heard the same from others nationwide. What do we hear from AA? Employees are abusing sick leave. I, like alot of others,was sick on Christmas. I also wasn't scheduled to fly either.

You may think after calling a few seemingly healthy crewmembers, that most are playing some game. The fact is that even minor problems can escalate greatly during a days flying. In my case, I figure after 12 years, I have used enough sick days to equal 6 months of flying. This is with no serious health occurences. If I was doing your job during the same period, I would have been sick enough to keep me out of that $39.99 Office Depot chair you sit in for maybe 10 working days max. While D2-ing sometime, imagine, while on descent to DFW with crap weather, having one of the pilots almost totally deaf due to attempting to fly with a minor case of the sniffles. I've been there.

Cram everyone in SOC into one of those side offices, then cycle 300 people of varying health and cleaniless standards in and out for 9 hours and watch your sick use skyrocket.

 

[RV4]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 4:38:40 PM Bob Owens wrote:

TWAFA007

What happened to all the money the company made from 1995 to 2000?

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[/blockquote]

They sure didn't keep the pension funds above water with the money.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWAFA007

What happened to all the money the company made from 1995 to 2000?

 

[kirkpatrick]

[blockquote]

My guess is you are making this up. My guess is you have NO proof to back this false claim up. You show us something that proves there was a giant sick call out over the holidays. That AA had delays due to F/A's and that most if not all flights were understaffed.
[/blockquote]

I flew reserve over xmas in STL and know of no cancellations or delays due to FA's calling in sick. As for understaffed, how many flights operate with any more than FAA minimums? Very few, and I know of no understaffings on them.

MK

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

[blockquote]
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On 1/29/2003 4:38:40 PM Bob Owens wrote:

TWAFA007

What happened to all the money the company made from 1995 to 2000?

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[/blockquote]

Lots of it went to pay off debt incurred in the early 90's. 1994 year end debt of $5.6B was reduced to $2.2B by year end 1997. Let's also not forget profit sharing paid out during those year.

A larger chunk went to pay for the 110+ new aircraft we bought from Boeing.

How much did I and other shareholders get as dividends on my stock? $0.00