Be careful, TSA loose (for crew members)

[JetTroop]

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 655 PM mga707 wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 213 PM JetTroop wrote:

It's their job. I don't get upset because the pilot flew me to my destination. I don't get upset because the guy at McDonalds gave me the fries I ordered. [/blockquote]

No, but any intelligent person can't help but get peeved when he realizes that the goofball in the spiffy new "Thousands Standing Around" uniform SHOULD be working at McDonalds...although he/she would get fired from that lofty position in the fast food industry within a week for sheer incompetence...

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[/blockquote]

Every one of them? All of them should be working at and then fired from McDonalds? Come to Myrtle Beach. I know two TSA screeners that have Masters Degrees and throughly enjoy their job and take pride in it. I have no problem saying when someone screwed up but I dont like to make blanket statements about a profession or group because you have bad apples. I like to call them out for what they are. You have people that shouldn't be in every type of jobs, TSA is no different.

 

[JetTroop]

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 5:38:29 PM diogenes wrote:

I just can't get past the obvious. Why search a guy or gal that may pass the screening with flying colors, and then fly the aircraft into any facility he/she chooses? The Egyptair guy didn't need any weapons.
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[/blockquote]

I'd venture to say that police officers go through a tougher screening process than pilots..perhaps not. I'm not an airline pilot for a major airline so I wouldn't know for certain but here is what I had to do: I had a rather extensive psychologically testing phase, evaluation and interview by a psychologist, extensive lie detector test, a lengthy background check, 5 months of school, 2 months of on the job training and countless other classes. My point is, even after all the training, some cops still commit crimes. Does that mean that all cops are bad? No. Does that mean that most are bad, nope. It's common sense that nothing is 100 percent especially when it comes to people. You never know.

As for screening the pilots, one reason is there is another pilot in the cockpit and the cockpit has re-enforced doors. So while it's happened in the past that one pilot could crash a plane, I would find it very difficult that one pilot in this day and age would allow another pilot to just crash. So one pilot, shoots, stabs, or injuries the other pilot, he's free in re-enforced cockpit to crash the plane. Sounds crazy but it sounded crazy to think that anyone could fly two planes into the World Trade Center but that happened.

 

[JetTroop]

Whoa...you're all wrong. Those are all permitted items except for the Scissors-metal with pointed tips. Re-read the TSA site.

[a href="http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited.doc"]List[/a]

If we're going to make fun, lets at least get it right.

But what does this have to do with someone threatening someone?

 

[JetTroop]

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 5:48:44 PM laxmmm wrote:

Dear JT,
I can tell by some of your comments that you know little or nothing about aviation.
[/blockquote]
That's your opinion...quiz me, see how I do
I don't know everything about aviation, far from it but I'm not uneducated about it either.

[blockquote]First of all you use the term "bad pilot". Could you please expand on that? Does it mean that they are incompetent when it comes to flying or does it have something to do with not blindly falling in line and doing what you are told without question?[/blockquote]
Pilots who drink on the job, commit crimes, etc.

[blockquote]Second, you mention that most passengers are glad to know that the other pilot is not armed so now there is no fear that one pilot will shoot the other. That statement really makes me laugh. How naive can you be? Do you not realize that if one pilot went crazy that there isn't much of anything the other could do to stop a disaster? That's where the trust from my previous post comes in. People have no other choice but to trust us. That's just a fact of life in aviation.[/blockquote] If another pilot tried to anything you've already have figured you can't do anything to stop them. You can't call for help (over the pa), cant swing an axe, can't swing a fist? I'm not talking about low-level stuff, but at 30,000 feet, you have no reaction time? Hey, you would know better than me but being the former military, mentally stable person, I would figure you would give it a good effort, right?

[blockquote]Lastly, if it makes you feel any better, we have all been psychologically screened to make sure we are mentally stable.[/blockquote]
No, not really. I know plenty of people that have been psychologically screened and deemed mentally stable. That doesn't mean I want to work with them or have them carry a gun. It's all how well you can snow the interviewer. Nothing is perfect.

[blockquote]Most of us have been in the military and have been entrusted with everything from a .38 to a nuclear weapon.[/blockquote]
So was I, what's your point? Are there no criminals in the military? Are there no bad soldiers or airman? Of course there is. You have crime and problems there just as any place,

[blockquote]We as a group have one primary purpose, the safety of the aircraft and all of its passengers. Part of a good pilots makeup is his/her unwillingness to blindly follow instructions. Our psychological makeup and training forces us to continually evaluate our environment and question things that don't make sense. So don't hold this against us, we can't help ourselves. And be glad we are like this, if we were not there would be many more accidents.[/blockquote]
I agree with you totally. The safety of the passengers on board the plane and the overall safety of the aircraft is your responsibly and rests pretty much squarely on your shoulders. But you as a pilot have no right to threaten to behead a TSA worker for whatever reason or do you disagree? If the rules say, search pilots, then search them and drive on. The TSA agent didn't make the rule. If you get treated rudely, then call the supervisor, call the supervisors boss, I don't mind. That's how this works. Complain. You deserve that right. I don't go threatening you because I didn't get upgraded or the $100 standby rule sucks and no pilot should threaten to behead someone.

I'm all for a fast track and/or private screening area for airline employees. But as soon as you say, no searching pilots, then you open a hole for terrorists. If we are arming pilots, re-enforcing doors and putting air marshals in planes, tell me where you as a terrorist would want to be? In the front of the plane or the back of plane? They would want to be the armed pilot, that's where. Just a thought but like laxmmm said, I obviously know very little and apparently not afraid to show and share that lack of knowledge. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif']

 

[Zephyr]

Attention! Attention!

You are entering the Twilight Sone Area. I repeat, you are entering the Twilight Sone Area. Here after referred to as the TSA

DO NOT bring PROHIBITED ITEMS to this checkpoint area.

As per TSA.gov:

If you bring a prohibited item to the checkpoint, you may be criminally and/or civilly prosecuted … A screener and/or Law Enforcement Officer will make this determination, … bringing a prohibited item to a security checkpoint - even accidentally - is illegal.

Your prohibited item may be detained for use in an investigation and, if necessary, as evidence in your criminal and/or civil prosecution.

Prohibited items include: (this is the official list at TSA.gov)

Cigar Cutters
Corkscrews
Cuticle Cutters
Eyeglass Repair Tools (including screwdrivers)
Eyelash Curlers
Knitting and Crochet Needles
Knives, round-bladed butter or plastic
Nail Clippers
Nail Files
Personal care or toiletries with aerosols, in limited quantities (such as hairsprays, deodorants)
Safety Razors (including disposable razors)
Scissors-plastic or metal with blunt tips
Scissors-metal with pointed tips
Toy Weapons (if not realistic replicas)
Tweezers
Umbrellas (allowed in carry-on baggage once they have been inspected to ensure that prohibited items are not concealed)
Braille Note-Taker, Slate and Stylus, Augmentation Devices

 

[Zephyr]

The following views do not constitute the views of the TSA, the message board, or the general public. No endorsement of the statements should be inferred.

It appears that many people are forgetting that the headline contains the word ALLEGEDEDLY yet many people are ready to thrust a sword through him. That in its self shows that the TSA is not the only one who is not thinking for themselves.

I hate to scare you, but there are some Part 121 flights conducted in the U.S. where your entire flight crew walked through the security checkpoint on the basis of their credentials. (no metal detectors for the fingernails and tweezers!) And yes, the crew still has an axe in their possession on the plane.

However there is no cause for alarm. I can assure you that none of them sneak their fingernail clippers or tweezers on board.

So you are safe. VERY safe.

That’s all you wanted to hear anyway. Don’t worry; I repeat the flight crews do not carry fingernail clippers or tweezers.

But you will dang sure wish they did if someone is able to get Eyelash Curlers on the plane by circumventing security at some point around the 10 or so miles of chicken wire that surrounds the airfields.

Peace,

Zephyr

 

[fatherabraham]

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 4:34:30 PM JetTroop wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 4:03:26 PM fatherabraham wrote:


JetTroop,

I do not seem to be getting my point accross. Let me try to paint a different scenerio...hope it's not too weak.

Let's say you respond to a disturbance in the Mall parking lot. You arrive in full uniform. As you approach the disturbance the Mall security says he/she will first need to confirm your credentials.

" Just step over to my golf cart while I wand you , empty your pockets and search you in case you may be a fraud. I think it would humiliate you and leave you with a lousy attitude. I also think the onlookers will loose respect for you over time.

Now after all the years of performing your duty in an honorable fashion , the " system " has now determined that your authority can now be questioned by seemingly everyone in a potentially disrespectful fashion. That ID and uniform you wear ( with all background checks ) allows you no more authority than what the Mall guard determines he/she will extend to you. Oh btw, the mall guard has the authority to releive you of your job if he/she determines that you said something in a threatening manner. You will be guilty untill you prove yourself innocent ( with all the associated cost ).

Again, most likely a rediculous analogy. Groping since I know Zero about law enforcement. What I am trying to get accross is the poor way TSA applies the " security process" to a uniformed and properly ID employee.

All employees know the inequities of the screening process who travel the system. I would never suggest we point them out to the general public in an open forum. Those who claim ALL are screened are uninformed.
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[/blockquote]

First, I want to say thank you. I enjoy a good discussion and the manner in which you've posted and responded...

Now, on to your post

I have two very close friends. One who is an Air Marshal and one who is a TSA Security Screening Supervisor. Never have I heard the TSA Screening Supervisor say he has the power to relieve someone or determine them not able to fly. Now my background is not with the TSA, however, that doesn't mean I haven't read about every possible piece of information out there or talk to both of them about policies and procedures. A TSA Agents job isn't to look for bad pilots, it's to look for weapons. For now, that goes for continuous searching of everyone through the checkpoint. One person done, the next that was in line at the moment is up for searching. It's not random, it's called continuous..the luck of the draw. The moment we say that all terrorists are male, over 25, under 35 and Arabic, we have a problem...a big problem. Everyone can be a possible terrorist...including me. It can happen. You can't just say, I'll only search some of the people but only ones that meet this profile because the terrorists will learn from that and find others that are sympathetic to their causes and recruit them. It would be shortsighted to think that only certain people could cause harm to us and attempt overtake an airplane. Including a pilot. Stranger things have happened. To ensure better security screening, you search everyone...or rather, you allow everyone to be searched. The more people you say, "They shouldn't be searched" or "They shouldn't be bothered" too, the larger of a security hole you have.

One thing I've learned from my experience as a police officer is that there are usually three sides to every story. His, Hers and what really happened. What I don't think a lot of people are looking at, is the other side of the fence. "It looks bad searching a pilot" But to others it looks like: "Wow, even they get searched...I feel safer." or "No one is above getting searched, I like that". So when you say it looks bad for the pilot because he looses authority, not everyone feels that way or thinks that way. By not screening them, you create an elitist attitude. One where people think, oh...he's better than me. There are 100 some people on a plane, most of whom would be happy to know that the co-pilot isn't armed and can't shoot the pilot and vice-versa. Now when weapons are introduced, that's another story altogether. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif']

So my final point is, while it look bad to you to see a pilot getting searched, to many others, they feel better. To them it means that no one is above getting searched and less chances that a potential terrorist could slip through. Security isn't so much the actual physical security of things as it is the appearance of security. Signs, fences, notices of attack dogs, do just as much good, if not more so, than having a guard at a gate. (People see security and they feel better and the crooks are far more nervous.) One thing I've always noticed is that most criminals are self-conscience. I look at them...they panic, sweat and run.
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[/blockquote]


JetTroop,


Went out for the eve and things got ugly on the board. Want to point out that it is not the individual TSA agents that are the problem for me. Rather it is the guidelines they work under. w/o getting specific on screening techniques I can assure you that I see many plain clothes individuals / LEO's / and TSA personnel bypass security with a simple check of ID at best. Screening strictness is the tightest where the public can see. As you so well put in your last paragraph

" Security isn't so much the actual physical security of things as it is the appearance of security ".

So what we have here is the inappropiate use of the uniformed pilot to make the traveling public feel all " warm and fuzzy " about security. Be honest with me, if you were working at airport as a police officer would you submit to screening as the pilots do. No way! Are LEO,s above the law?

So I assume that certain personnel do their screening outside the public eye. BTW, this used to be the policy with employees when additional security screening was required. This is ALL i have been trying to stress, the guidelines need to be changed.

As to TSA authority over a pilots job. Alpa national has protested loudly over TSA,s request ( and I beleive granted ) permission to terminate ( maybe temporary ) a pilots license if they ( whoever that may be ) determine the pilot to be a threat.

Likewise enjoyed our discussion. Again thank you for your service to us all. To do it for free....you must be one helluva guy! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/16.gif']

 

[JetTroop]

[blockquote]Sad. They must be proud to be in there with all the ex-Argenbright/Wackenhut mouth-breathers--now with guaranteed jobs for life! I find it hard to believe anyone does NOT consider the TSA to be one of the most onerous government boondoggles of all time...I guess cops always do cover for one another--even glorified rent-a-cops.[/blockquote]

Actually a vast majority of the previous employees weren't hired:

"The federal Transportation Security Authority has retained just a handful of the former security workers at Myrtle Beach International Airport, creating bitterness among some of those whose applications were declined.But TSA officials say the Myrtle Beach workers who weren't rehired lost their jobs because they couldn't pass a mandatory set of tests.``If they passed the assessment, they are guaranteed a job,' said TSA spokeswoman Helen Rosenker, who added that the..."

Courtsy of The Sun News archives. I would post the rest but I have to pay for it. http://www.thesunnews.com/

They made the rounds with the local media and threatened to sue.

And who's covering for who? Someone asked and I responded, I know of two who have degrees. Are you calling me a liar? Re-read the board and see how many people support a pilot that threatens to chop the head off of a security agent. Pretty much everyone blames the agent and then changes the topic of the thread. Create another thread to talk about how wasteful you feel the TSA is. This thread about some someone threatening someone. Plain and simple.

 

[mga707]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/7/2003 8:23:29 PM JetTroop wrote:

Come to Myrtle Beach. I know two TSA screeners that have Masters Degrees and throughly enjoy their job and take pride in it.
[/blockquote]

Sad. They must be proud to be in there with all the ex-Argenbright/Wackenhut mouth-breathers--now with guaranteed jobs for life! I find it hard to believe anyone does NOT consider the TSA to be one of the most onerous government boondoggles of all time...I guess cops always do cover for one another--even glorified rent-a-cops.

 

[ual06]

Back in the mid 70's, it was not illegal for a pilot to carry a handgun in the cockpit. There was at least one certain pilot who did carry his weapon. His indiscriminate "waving" of the weapon resulted in complaints from other crew members, including F/A's who came into the cockpit to see a cocked 38 pointed at their face and copilots and flight engineers that saw the cocked 38 swing past their face. He retired early. He was a volunteer Policeman in his local community.

 

[Zephyr]

[blockquote]
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On 3/7/2003 903 PM JetTroop wrote:

Whoa...you're all wrong. Those are all permitted items except for the Scissors-metal with pointed tips. Re-read the TSA site.

[a href="http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited.doc"]List[/a]

If we're going to make fun, lets at least get it right.

But what does this have to do with someone threatening someone?
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[/blockquote]


JetTroop,

Yes. Now they are listed as legitimate; however following 911 I personally witnessed everyone of those items being confiscated form crewmembers and passengers(except the Braille things). The growing pains of TSA have been ridiculous.

Added to this, if you beep because of a metal pin in your hip you are now assumed to be guilty. Even if you decided that you are fed up with the security search and wish to leave, you cannot. If you attempt to leave before they figure out if you have tweezers or pennies in your pocket you will be considered a fugitive. Try it sometime.

Did he threaten the screener? I don’t know. But if he did it was probably not without provocation. So what we probably have here are two people who ought to get to sit down with a supervisor and be told, “We are here to work together and provide a pretty façade of security to the public. Now shake hands and make up. Both of you get back to work.â€

Two pilots were arrested at the same security checkpoint in PHL last year. It seems they too tried to reason with the screener about why they should get to keep their fingernail clippers since they had an axe in the cockpit. They were carried off in handcuffs and fired by the company.

The Judge that heard the cast almost had a coronary. He threw out the case against the pilots and ordered the pilots be returned to their job with full back pay.

Seems to me a supervisor telling little Johnny and Jack to remember how they got along in kindergarten would go along way to make things reasonable.

Or then again we could just throw handcuffs on anyone who dares lift their eyes off the floor as they pass.

Zephyr

P.S. The TSA is tryin to get better. Until they get better there are a few tricks to get through.

1. Say "Good Morning." They just might smile.

2. Most important is do not appear to be bothered by the imposition, or in a hurry, or overly helpful to make things proceed quickly. (One trick is: Do not take your laptop out to help things speed along. Wait for them to remind you to take it out. “Oh, yeah. Thank You. I forgot.†(They like to have evidence that crew members, business men, and soccer moms really are as dumb as they thought. It makes them feel important.)

3. DO NOT BEEP. (Don't let them remind you of change in your pocket[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif'])

4. If you do beep go back to rule number 1.

5. If they decide to search your belongings they are supposed to explain what they are doing and ask your permission. Some do not. Oh well, maybe that’s why they aren’t your local politician. Let that ride.


6. They may accidentally try to separate you from your belongings when they wand you. Politely do not let that ride. They should not. If you have something valuable do not let them search your bag without you being able to observe. Be polite about it. It is for their benefit as well. It will bother them, stay polite and let them b.i.t.c.h. I would hate to have forgotten how much cash I had in my bag and end up accusing them of theft. (By the way some TSA screeners have been arrested for stealing valuables at the checkpoints. It is of course extremely rare, but don’t let your valuables out of your site. That way there is no question.)

7. Be on your way and thank Mrs. Blosser, your kindergarten teacher.
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']

 

[JetTroop]

[blockquote]JetTroop,

Went out for the eve and things got ugly on the board. Want to point out that it is not the individual TSA agents that are the problem for me. Rather it is the guidelines they work under. w/o getting specific on screening techniques I can assure you that I see many plain clothes individuals / LEO's / and TSA personnel bypass security with a simple check of ID at best. Screening strictness is the tightest where the public can see. As you so well put in your last paragraph [/blockquote]
I travel quite often and perhaps it does happen but I have yet to see it. I have never attempted to flash my badge to get by nor have I have been overlooked because they saw it in my wallet. I spoke my TSA Supervisor friend and he advised me that they are required to go through the checkpoint as well. So before they walk to the other side to begin work, or if they leave the "secure" area they must be re-screened and this includes wanding and shoe removal if needed. Recently a screening supervisor was written up for bypassing security...and rightfully so.

[blockquote]
" Security isn't so much the actual physical security of things as it is the appearance of security ".

So what we have here is the inappropriate use of the uniformed pilot to make the traveling public feel all " warm and fuzzy " about security. Be honest with me, if you were working at airport as a police officer would you submit to screening as the pilots do. No way! Are LEO's above the law? [/blockquote]
For the first statement, I might have come off wrong. The appearance of security is just as important a deterrent as actual physical security and in some cases more so. Back in the county I work in, Cumberland County, NC, the sheriff's office used to have just bomb dogs. They weren't patrol dogs or the ones that chase after criminals, just bombs. In more than one instance when they had large mobs that wouldn't disperse, they would bring out the bomb dogs and just stand there with them. After seeing the dogs, no one hesitated to leave area not realizing the dogs wouldn't chase them or bite them. The appearance of security works with the concept of physical security. The appearance of security protects you when real security officers or cameras can't see some places or is inbetween patrols. It's a total package, you need both to be successful. A guard at a front gate is useless if people walk through the unprotected back gate. But if they see signs, a fence, cameras, and random patrols, then they believe they might get caught and ultimately deterred.

If I was working at the airport as an airport police officer and I was on duty, no. I most certainly would not be screened. I have a weapon on purpose, for both sides of the checkpoint. But if I'm off duty, yes of course. There is no policy that says cops, any cops get free rides around security. I certainly haven't and I would be quite ticked off if someone did. You can buy a badge and fake the id card, not that hard. LEO's are not above the law, I personally never said that nor do I
believe that.

[blockquote]So I assume that certain personnel do their screening outside the public eye. BTW, this used to be the policy with employees when additional security screening was required. This is ALL i have been trying to stress, the guidelines need to be changed.[/blockquote] I'm not certain if certain personnel do screening privately. I know the governor of South Carolina and a state senator both went through the normal security checkpoint in Myrtle Beach. (they were screened like normal travelers)

[blockquote]As to TSA authority over a pilots job. Alpa national has protested loudly over TSA,s request ( and I beleive granted ) permission to terminate ( maybe temporary ) a pilots license if they ( whoever that may be ) determine the pilot to be a threat.[/blockquote] Yes I believe the TSA has asked for that power but I don't think a local security agent has any remote types of power. They just screen for weapons, not a very glamorous job. They find a weapon and waive to the LEO on duty who handles the situation. At least that's how it's done here in Myrtle Beach. The TSA checkpoint personnel are not law enforcement and aren't trained for that. They screen for weapons and then notify the authorities.

[blockquote]Likewise enjoyed our discussion. Again thank you for your service to us all. To do it for free....you must be one helluva guy! [/blockquote]
Thanks! I'm not perfect but I try to do the right thing and help out in the community. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif']

 

[laxmmm]

JT said: That's your opinion...quiz me, see how I do
I don't know everything about aviation, far from it but I'm not uneducated about it either.

OK JT, here are some questions.
What happens when you are at cruise at say 35000 feet and you suddenly push the yoke full forward and hold it? If you don't like high altitude, how about on take off or landing. Under those circumstances, how long do you think the airplane will stay together? If you think the number you came up with is to long, just pull back on the yoke and stomp on the rudder. How many "Gs" do you think the above will produce and under those conditions how will you proceed to fight to save the plane? Do you know where the ax is? Do you think that you could swing it in a narrow body aircraft, even if you could get to it? The worst part of the above scenario is that if the wacko pilot didn't want anyone to bother him while he killed everyone, he'd just wait for the other guy to use the lav. Remember the Air Egypt flight?

JT's definition of a bad pilot: [Pilots who drink on the job, commit crimes, etc.

I totally agree, including the part where it's not the TSA's job to root out these people.


JT said; If another pilot tried to anything you've already have figured you can't do anything to stop them. You can't call for help (over the pa), cant swing an axe, can't swing a fist? I'm not talking about low-level stuff, but at 30,000 feet, you have no reaction time? Hey, you would know better than me but being the former military, mentally stable person, I would figure you would give it a good effort, right?


Well JT, I sure as hell would want to do something about it but contrary to popular belief, pilots are not supermen. (Yeah yeah I know, speak for myself) Under the scenario I painted in the beginning there's just nothing that you could physically do. It's not like fighting for control of a car in a vacant parking lot. If you really want to understand then go get yourself a ride in an aerobatic aircraft. You'll see what I mean and you'll probably have a blast.


About pilots being psychological screened and you feeling better JT said: No, not really. I know plenty of people that have been psychologically screened and deemed mentally stable. That doesn't mean I want to work with them or have them carry a gun. It's all how well you can snow the interviewer. Nothing is perfect.

JT, I was trying to make you feel better and you ruined it. So would you feel better if we didn't screen and just let anyone in the cockpit of a commercial jetliner? Although not perfect I think that they must be doing a good job because our record on the subject speaks for itself.


[blockquote]Most of us have been in the military and have been entrusted with everything from a .38 to a nuclear weapon.[/blockquote]
So was I, what's your point? Are there no criminals in the military? Are there no bad soldiers or airman? Of course there is. You have crime and problems there just as any place,

JT, My point is that as a group we are routinely entrusted with things that if misused could kill people. Like I said before, our record speaks for itself.


JT said: But you as a pilot have no right to threaten to behead a TSA worker for whatever reason or do you disagree?

JT, you're right. Nobody has the right to threaten others. IMHO the pilot didn't threaten anyone. He merely made a stupid comment to help illustrate the lunacy of some of the TSA's rules. Personally, when confronted by such stupidity I comply to a point, and then either go to a phone and call my company to tell them that the TSA won't let me go to work or if allowed to enter, I just shake my head and walk away. It's still legal to do that, isn't it?


JT said:
I'm all for a fast track and/or private screening area for airline employees. But as soon as you say, no searching pilots, then you open a hole for terrorists.

JT, are you going to search us when we are armed? I can see it now, put you gun on the table and walk through the metal detector. Uh oh, you have a nail file or a cork screw or a 3 D-cell mag light on you that could be used as a weapon. The rules say you can't have that stuff so we are going to have to take it away. ( Don't laugh, especially about the flashlight. That is required equipment, by the FAA, but about a week ago in Boston one was confiscated by the TSA because it could be used as a weapon.) OK, you can proceed and oh, don't forget your gun. There comes a point when we have to be placed on the trusted list. Then the big problem is identification, we must show that we are who we say we are. Maybe iris scanners or fingerprint scanners would do the trick. That stuff is a little more in your league so I'll let you guys figure it out.

Its been fun, see you around.

 

[laxmmm]

This thread about some someone threatening someone. Plain and simple.
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[/blockquote]

Come on JT, you're missing the whole point. This isn't about a threat, it's about common sense or should I say, lack thereof.

 

[JetTroop]

[blockquote]
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On 3/8/2003 759 PM nycbusdriver wrote:

JetTroop -

You've just pointed out the fallacy of the entire TSA screening process. It's NOT continuous and does NOT allow everyone to be searched. The majority of airline/airport workers bypass screening every time they report for work. They have been issued pass cards that allow them to use security doors hidden from the public. No one stops them. No magnetometers. No x-ray machines.

If, as you say, "everyone can be a possible terrorist," then why does the TSA let all those folks go unchallenged, day in and day out?
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For the people going through the checkpoint the standing policy is continuous. That doesn't mean everyone gets searched. That means that one person is searched and as soon as they are done, the next person in line is searched. If you pass through while they are already searching someone, then you aren't searched. It's so the screener is always searching someone. It's not supposed to be random, where the screener can select someone, that can invoke personal bias. Nor is it supposed to be that everyone gets a detailed search. Search one and then move on the next one still standing in line.

Why aren't they searching all airport workers? I don't know. I don't work for the TSA so I can't quote their actual policy. I know the TSA searches their own employees. TSA is supposed to not to search airline workers or flight crews, I'm not sure which. But it was pointed out that it's not their policy to search pilots. When they are required to search pilots it's because the airport manager mandated it. It's supposed to be up to each local manager's authority as is the case in Myrtle Beach. I could be way wrong but that's the policy as I understand it from the TSA personal I asked. I'm told the airport manager has a lot of power and discretion.

The TSA system isn't perfect but it's not nearly as bad as it could be considering it's only a year or so old. At least we have pretty good uniformity over the entire national, much, much, much better than we had in the past. Perfect? No, fair from it. But it's far better than the previous false sense of security that we had. Previous security was a REAL joke. Give it time and hopefully more things will improve. We've already seen gate searching stop and prohibited items changed to reflect real weapons. These were all major issues in the past but now as the TSA changes for the travelers, the travelers have to find someone else to complain about it seems.

Again, all this is relayed to me by TSA screening supervisors. While I hope it's accurate, it may or may not be and your milage may vary. I wont pretend that I know every policy, I don't.