Awesome "Live Webinar" Notification

[WNMECH]

WNMECH, He has been answered on this post by me as well as others from SWA. Were are getting sick of repeating ourselves over and over again. So now alot of his post goes unanswered. Most of them are just the same ole Anomaly postings. He continuously will repost saying nobody has answered his questions in other threads so it looks like no one is countering his quotes.
I had to take a week off because of this guy. After my 4 day stay in Clear Skies with out internet, phone, or lap top, made me realize that ignoring him was better than answering him. Besides, almost all out here in cyberland know all about him by now, so usually responces are not needed. He was answered by me. If he claims not, then let him do his own research. Others have answered him as well...

I saw where some had answered him but not to the specific BS that I responded to.
I have not been reading here and still have not been able to catch up.

All this silly back and forth can not be convincing anyone to sign any unions cards.

The bottom line still remains.
Do AA mechanics want to control themselves, or be controlled by the TWU or IBT.

All the rest is just a smoke screen.

 

[unionguy1]

Looking forward to Tuesday, October 30th webinar

 

[Anomaly]

I have not been reading here lately so I had to go though pages and pages of your BS in different threads to try and catch up. So sorry if I missed any of your brilliant rebuttal anywhere.

When we dumped the teamsters there was no "campaign" or "promise to go hard on the company".
It was a grass roots effort that took two weeks to get enough cards to file.
Everyone here wanted the IBT out.

You keep posting about a news release like it is fact.
Newsflash.
It was company spin.

It was the stated goal of Swa in that time to have cost neutral contracts from ALL workgroups that were negotiating at that time or were about to be.

We got raises, stock options and a new profitability bonus added to our compensation.

The 3 year extension allowed us to get our locals on solid footing and push us out to a time when we believed the whole industry may be doing better.

While SWA did still make profits and buy planes, the rest of the industry was going bankrupt.

We Swa mechanics brought this offer out to be voted on being full aware of what we where doing and knowing the state of the company.

We Swa mechanics voted it in.
Just like we voted out the IBT.
We do have free will.

Just because the company claims it to be cost neutral in their eyes does not mean we have LOST anything monetary. They were just putting a good face on the fact that they gave us 9% raises, stock options and another 1%-3% profitability bonus each year.
They had to make that claim so the other unions would not rape them in their negotiations.

During this time, we made money and the company made profits.

We don't call that concessions, we call it a win-win for all sides.

Why don't you explain what work rules we gave up that were so egregious that you can claim we made "ZERO improvements"?

I am waiting .....

Thanks WNMECH. It is nice to finally have answers with specifics other than the crap spewed by others. I look up these things based on posts I read. If I find an article which explains there were cost neutral negotiations at a time the airline was profitable, I will ask the question.

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

This article suggests you gave up something to create work rule improvements and contract flexibility. What were those? I am posting this as a question not an accusation, so if you please...?

 

[WNMECH]

Thanks WNMECH. It is nice to finally have answers with specifics other than the crap spewed by others. I look up these things based on posts I read. If I find an article which explains there were cost neutral negotiations at a time the airline was profitable, I will ask the question.

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

This article suggests you gave up something to create work rule improvements and contract flexibility. What were those? I am posting this as a question not an accusation, so if you please...?

Nice try.
A swing and a miss from you.

I posted what we received by accepting the extension.

You made broad claims that we gave up something that amounted to concessions resulting in "ZERO improvements".

You made the claim, you provide the proof.

Put up or shut up.

I am still waiting........

 

[TWU informer]

Thanks WNMECH. It is nice to finally have answers with specifics other than the crap spewed by others. I look up these things based on posts I read. If I find an article which explains there were cost neutral negotiations at a time the airline was profitable, I will ask the question.

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

This article suggests you gave up something to create work rule improvements and contract flexibility. What were those? I am posting this as a question not an accusation, so if you please...?

What a crack up.
Anyone getting a "cost neutral" contract in this enviornment with the Industrial Unions leading us backward is doing alot better than I am right now.

Where is that industry leading cost positive contract for the AMT at UAL? Every update I see shows nothing happening...period.

You are just like the other zealots on here. You refuse to demand from your own Union what you expect from AMFA.

 

[swamt]

I saw where some had answered him but not to the specific BS that I responded to.
I have not been reading here and still have not been able to catch up.

All this silly back and forth can not be convincing anyone to sign any unions cards.

The bottom line still remains.
Do AA mechanics want to control themselves, or be controlled by the TWU or IBT.

All the rest is just a smoke screen.

I agree.

 

[TWU informer]

I saw where some had answered him but not to the specific BS that I responded to.
I have not been reading here and still have not been able to catch up.

All this silly back and forth can not be convincing anyone to sign any unions cards.

The bottom line still remains.
Do AA mechanics want to control themselves, or be controlled by the TWU or IBT.

All the rest is just a smoke screen.

BINGO
You get it!

 

[Anomaly]

What a crack up.
Anyone getting a "cost neutral" contract in this enviornment with the Industrial Unions leading us backward is doing alot better than I am right now.

Where is that industry leading cost positive contract for the AMT at UAL? Every update I see shows nothing happening...period.

You are just like the other zealots on here. You refuse to demand from your own Union what you expect from AMFA.

Zealot, member of a Jewish sect noted for its uncompromising opposition to pagan Rome and the polytheism it professed. The Zealots were an aggressive political party whose concern for the national and religious life of the Jewish people led them to despise even Jews who sought peace and conciliation with the Roman authorities. A census of Galilee ordered by Rome in ad 6 spurred the Zealots to rally the populace to noncompliance on the grounds that agreement was an implicit acknowledgment by Jews of the right of pagans to rule their nation.
Extremists among the Zealots turned to terrorism and assassination and became known as Sicarii (Greek sikarioi, “dagger men&rdquo. They frequented public places with hidden daggers to strike down persons friendly to Rome. In the first revolt against Rome (ad 66–70) the Zealots played a leading role, and at Masada in 73 they committed suicide rather than surrender the fortress, but they were still a force to be reckoned with in the first part of the following century. A few scholars see a possible relationship between the Zealots and the Jewish religious community mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls. See also Masada.

 

[Anomaly]

Nice try.
A swing and a miss from you.

I posted what we received by accepting the extension.

You made broad claims that we gave up something that amounted to concessions resulting in "ZERO improvements".

You made the claim, you provide the proof.

Put up or shut up.

I am still waiting........

If you want to step in to this argument at least do it from near the beginning. It started on page 3 as an answer to 1AA. According to the annual financial filings, as well as many documented news reports, there were cost neutral agreements made with all the unions on property including amfa. As the filings describe, SWA was able to increase pay and profit payments in exchange for flexibilities. I am sorry if you do not agree, but when you take something away and are offerd something else, your net gain is ZERO. This even net gain was sold to your board of directors in order to approve your contracts.

http://www.airtimes....t/ar/wn2004.pdf
http://www.getfiling...-05-002093.html


From the 2005 SWA 10K filing, "Higher average wage rates and higher profitsharing expense per ASM from the increase in earnings were offset by continued productivity efforts that have enabled the Company to reduce headcount while continuing to grow its aircraft fleet."

http://www.getfilings.com/o0000092380-05-000006.html

So what did you loose?

Your agreements allowed for reduced head count. Overall you went down in mechanic to aircraft ratio and were able to do this by early out programs without replacing with new hires. I believe there was an increase in by open ended agreements allowing for more maintenance work to be sent to outside vendors but that is purely speculative based on a shortage of personnel.

Your decision to allow maintenance work to be sent outside the US is another issue but I believe that subject did not become allowable amfa language until 2008.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Southwest-Airlines-Will-Send-Planes-to-El-Salvador-For-Maintanence.html

Sending work to El Salvador was not an overnight development and I am willing to bet there were talks about this earlier. Could this have been part of those flexibility discussions?

The subject I have been dissecting is not what you gained or gave up in 2004, but that some would claim that amfa is the reason you mechanics at WN are doing so well. I disagree and have questioned the notion using both submissions from 10K filings and documented news stories.

Don't try to sell me a river that you do not own. amfa did not negotiate any more than any other union on property in 2004. Even though Soutwest was profitable in 2003 and 2004, they were still facing one of the highest fuel rates yet to come, as well as an unstable market. The company did the right thing by negotiating cost saving measures with it's unions while adding to their employees individual compensation packages. This too is clear and explained in several portions of the financial reports in various years. In the end, however, you,1AA, swamt, or the informer can NOT convince me that amfa had anything to do with this wage increase in 2004 especially after just winning the representational election. It is not the extension that keeps me at the keyboard, it is the suggestion of a few that amfa orchestrated the move. It fell on them and they were only too happy to take it. amfa accepted the extension because they could not negotiate a contract in 2004. Your answer helps to prove that.

I appreciate your explanation which seems much more plausible than the swamt 9-11 toilet rant. But still your description of the cost neutral excuse "so that other unions would not rape them in negotiations" is simply unbelievable. As I have already explained, the exact reason is well described in your annual 10K filings.

The bottom line; you are the highest paid mechanics because of the company you work for, not the union that represents you.
To suggest amfa would or could be as successful with AA as they are at WN is irresponsible. I do not make these claims even about the Teamsters. I can only state that we at UA were in the same position as AA mechanics. amfa promises and stories only lead to more losses.

 

[TWU informer]

Zealot, member of a Jewish sect noted for its uncompromising opposition to pagan Rome and the polytheism it professed. The Zealots were an aggressive political party whose concern for the national and religious life of the Jewish people led them to despise even Jews who sought peace and conciliation with the Roman authorities. A census of Galilee ordered by Rome in ad 6 spurred the Zealots to rally the populace to noncompliance on the grounds that agreement was an implicit acknowledgment by Jews of the right of pagans to rule their nation.
Extremists among the Zealots turned to terrorism and assassination and became known as Sicarii (Greek sikarioi, “dagger men&rdquo. They frequented public places with hidden daggers to strike down persons friendly to Rome. In the first revolt against Rome (ad 66–70) the Zealots played a leading role, and at Masada in 73 they committed suicide rather than surrender the fortress, but they were still a force to be reckoned with in the first part of the following century. A few scholars see a possible relationship between the Zealots and the Jewish religious community mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls. See also Masada.

zeal·ot /ˈzɛlət/ noun
plural zeal·ots

[count] often disapproving : a person who has very strong feelings about something (such as religion or politics) and who wants other people to have those feelings : a zealous person
▪ religious zealots [=fanatics] ▪ Her father is an exercise zealot. [=he is very serious about exercising]


zealot
noun



Definition of ZEALOT


one who is intensely or excessively devoted to a cause <zealots on both sides of the issue resorted to name-calling and scare tactics>
Synonyms crusader, fanatic, ideologue (also idealogue), militant, partisan (also partizan), red hot, true believer
Related Words activist; dreamer, idealist, visionary; cultist, disciple, follower, hanger-on, idolizer, votary; addict, aficionado (also afficionado), buff, bug, devotee, enthusiast, fan, fancier, fiend, fool, freak, habitu&eacute; (also habitue), head, hound, junkie (also junky), lover, maniac, maven (also mavin), nut, sucker; advocate, apostle, backer, champion, evangelist, patron, promoter, stalwart, supporter; booster, rooter, well-wisher; faddist
Near Antonyms dabbler, dilettante
Antonyms nonmilitant

 

[WNMECH]

I am sorry if you do not agree, but when you take something away and are offerd something else, your net gain is ZERO.

So what did you loose?

Strike two......

You had to write all that just to say that you can not prove your claim that we got ZERO improvement in our 2004 contract extension.

After any negotiations both sides always claim they won in press releases. You should know that, you spin more than a top.

As I recall, you were Mr. Fact checker.

I wrote what we received in the extension, now you prove your claim that we gave up as much as we gained resulting in ZERO improvement.

Tell us now, what did we "LOOSE".

I am still waiting........

 

[TWU informer]

Strike two......

You had to write all that just to say that you can not prove your claim that we got ZERO improvement in our 2004 contract extension.

After any negotiations both sides always claim they won in press releases. You should know that, you spin more than a top.

As I recall, you were Mr. Fact checker.

I wrote what we received in the extension, now you prove your claim that we gave up as much as we gained resulting in ZERO improvement.

Tell us now, what did we "LOOSE".

I am still waiting........

Industrial Unionist ALWAYS believe whatever company man says.
That is why they all SUCK.

No need to "fact check" company man, lapdogs, never challenge their master.

 

[Anomaly]

Industrial Unionist ALWAYS believe whatever company man says.
That is why they all SUCK.

No need to "fact check" company man, lapdogs, never challenge their master.

amfa EXTENSION ???

 

[Anomaly]

Strike two......

You had to write all that just to say that you can not prove your claim that we got ZERO improvement in our 2004 contract extension.

After any negotiations both sides always claim they won in press releases. You should know that, you spin more than a top.

As I recall, you were Mr. Fact checker.

I wrote what we received in the extension, now you prove your claim that we gave up as much as we gained resulting in ZERO improvement.

Tell us now, what did we "LOOSE".

I am still waiting........

Psssst, the required SEC 10K annual filing is NOT a press release. Your contract extension formula was pay raise, plus additional profit sharing, minus existing jobs plus future farm outs. Answer = ZERO

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[DNTULSA]

Psssst, the required SEC 10K annual filing is NOT a press release. Your contract extension formula was pay raise, plus additional profit sharing, minus existing jobs plus future farm outs. Answer = ZERO

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

anomoly, that is obviously your I.Q. !!