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[Anomaly]

TSH, swamt.... you got anything yet??

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

TSH, swamt.... you got anything yet??

I already exposed your nonsense in our discussion twice over now. I'm sure swamt will be along shortly to finish your dialogue about SWA.

 

[Anomaly]

I already exposed your nonsense in our discussion twice over now. I'm sure swamt will be along shortly to finish your dialogue about SWA.

You posted about who brought up UAL agreement 74-1M. Other than agreeing that amfa leaders took station selections away from furloughed workers (without a vote or advanced knowledge) what have you exposed? Did amfa do more damage at UAL that I do not know about? I am sure they did. How about exposing that? You were there on the inside, right?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You posted about who brought up UAL agreement 74-1M. Other than agreeing that amfa leaders took station selections away from furloughed workers (without a vote or advanced knowledge) what have you exposed? Did amfa do more damage at UAL that I do not know about? I am sure they did. How about exposing that? You were there on the inside, right?

Wow, and you're back for thirds...

Again because you asked, I exposed your argumentative nonsense.

The IPTE guidelines at UAL were brought up along with the deceptive way the BAs first floated them. You made a pathetic attempt at a counter by introducing LOA74-1M, when I shot that ridiculous comparison down you then tried to fault me for the comparison that YOU initiated.

Further, after you couldn't prevail on the intial point, you then tried to draw me into arguing the SWA situation. A conversation between you and swamt, that I was never a part of.

Just more of your oh-so-typical obfuscation

 

[DNTULSA]

Wow, and you're back for thirds...

Again because you asked, I exposed your argumentative nonsense.

The IPTE guidelines at UAL were brought up along with the deceptive way the BAs first floated them. You made a pathetic attempt at a counter by introducing LOA74-1M, when I shot that ridiculous comparison down you then tried to fault me for the comparison that YOU initiated.

Further, after you couldn't prevail on the intial point, you then tried to draw me into arguing the SWA situation. A conversation between you and swamt, that I was never a part of.

Just more of your oh-so-typical obfuscation

Hey Third Seat Hero,

You shouldn't use words that have more than 4 letters in them when you are communicating with anomaly.

He just won't understand!

 

[Anomaly]

Wow, and you're back for thirds...

Again because you asked, I exposed your argumentative nonsense.

The IPTE guidelines at UAL were brought up along with the deceptive way the BAs first floated them. You made a pathetic attempt at a counter by introducing LOA74-1M, when I shot that ridiculous comparison down you then tried to fault me for the comparison that YOU initiated.

Further, after you couldn't prevail on the intial point, you then tried to draw me into arguing the SWA situation. A conversation between you and swamt, that I was never a part of.

Just more of your oh-so-typical obfuscation

Aaaaarrrrggghhh

When will it end?? Look, I get it! You want to expose my comparison of the IPTE Guidelines to LOA74-1M. Guess what, only a hand full of people know what the hell either of those are and the rest really DO NOT CARE!!

They were both ancient history and I should have never ever brought up such ancient sh$t to compare your argument of ancient sh$t. But in order to be done with this silliness, hows about I make you a little deal.

Yes! I did it! You EXPOSED ME!

YOU WIN. I am defeated, and will slither back in to my hole of despair with the knowledge and guilt that I have so decisively been proven wrong and have been EXPOSED for attempting such an inconsequential act of irresponsible comparisons and worse, the disinclination to confess the attempted subterfuge.

Bask in your success and brilliance Third Seat Hero, as you have surely demonstrated to be the most articulate, the most knowledgeable of facts, the most impressive in terms of deliberation.

I - am - exposed.......


Now what do you know about Kevin McCormick and all the failures he was responsible for while appointed as the top financial dog at amfa?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Aaaaarrrrggghhh

When will it end?? Look, I get it! You want to expose my comparison of the IPTE Guidelines to LOA74-1M. Guess what, only a hand full of people know what the hell either of those are and the rest really DO NOT CARE!!

They were both ancient history and I should have never ever brought up such ancient sh$t to compare your argument of ancient sh$t. But in order to be done with this silliness, hows about I make you a little deal.

Yes! I did it! You EXPOSED ME!

YOU WIN. I am defeated, and will slither back in to my hole of despair with the knowledge and guilt that I have so decisively been proven wrong and have been EXPOSED for attempting such an inconsequential act of irresponsible comparisons and worse, the disinclination to confess the attempted subterfuge.

Bask in your success and brilliance Third Seat Hero, as you have surely demonstrated to be the most articulate, the most knowledgeable of facts, the most impressive in terms of deliberation.

I - am - exposed.......


Now what do you know about Kevin McCormick and all the failures he was responsible for while appointed as the top financial dog at amfa?

First you try to dodge now its so trivial you turn dismissive ... remember, you kept asking, I just answered.

Okay, done.

Kevin McCormick -

I have no idea what his involvement was/what he did-didn't do at SWA.

I can only tell you that at UAL, his ouster was in the works before the ibt took over. It did not however have to do with what you are trying to label as failures at UAL.

 

[Anomaly]

First you try to dodge now its so trivial you turn dismissive ... remember, you kept asking, I just answered.

Okay, done.

Kevin McCormick -

I have no idea what his involvement was/what he did-didn't do at SWA.

I can only tell you that at UAL, his ouster was in the works before the ibt took over. It did not however have to do with what you are trying to label as failures at UAL.

Once again, we disagree. McCormick was as much a cause to the amfa failure as any other issue combined. He had no business wielding the power he was afforded by Delle.

http://www.businessw...ors-outside-man
http://encycl.opento...nal_Association
http://www.airlinecr...p/t-175303.html
http://workinglife.t...up_press_w.html
http://www.transform...01_archive.html
http://www.teamster....evealed2008.pdf

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Once again, we disagree. McCormick was as much a cause to the amfa failure as any other issue combined. He had no business wielding the power he was afforded by Delle.

http://www.businessw...ors-outside-man
http://encycl.opento...nal_Association
http://www.airlinecr...p/t-175303.html
http://workinglife.t...up_press_w.html
http://www.transform...01_archive.html
http://www.teamster....evealed2008.pdf

Thats your opinion, as you say, we disagree.

 

[Anomaly]

Thats your opinion, as you say, we disagree.

True, my opinion, but come on....?

You have to admit we would have done much better with AMFA if we had better resources the McCormick?

He was behind so many of the bad decisions of our time. He was the common denominator to many of the AMFA failures. He alone, besides Seham, could not be recalled.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

True, my opinion, but come on....?

You have to admit we would have done much better with AMFA if we had better resources the McCormick?

He was behind so many of the bad decisions of our time. He was the common denominator to many of the AMFA failures. He alone, besides Seham, could not be recalled.

And again these so called "bad decisions" are your opinion.

I would ask what decision is it that you think he alone controlled and fumbled?And do not quote me docket statements taken out of context from the ibts UAL campaign report. I can just as easily counter with equally biased pro McCormick articles from AMFA publications.

 

[Anomaly]

And again these so called "bad decisions" are your opinion.

I would ask what decision is it that you think he alone controlled and fumbled?And do not quote me docket statements taken out of context from the ibts UAL campaign report. I can just as easily counter with equally biased pro McCormick articles from AMFA publications.

Only one of these articles were from the IBT. Hardly what I would call a single opinion.

http://www.businessw...ors-outside-man
http://encycl.opento...nal_Association
http://www.airlinecr...p/t-175303.html
http://workinglife.t...up_press_w.html
http://www.transform...01_archive.html
http://www.teamster....evealed2008.pdf

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Only one of these articles were from the IBT. Hardly what I would call a single opinion.

http://www.businessw...ors-outside-man
http://encycl.opento...nal_Association
http://www.airlinecr...p/t-175303.html
http://workinglife.t...up_press_w.html
http://www.transform...01_archive.html
http://www.teamster....evealed2008.pdf

Just more of your twisted reasoning ....... Here is your stated opinion.

True, my opinion, but come on....?

You have to admit we would have done much better with AMFA if we had better resources the McCormick?

He was behind so many of the bad decisions of our time. He was the common denominator to many of the AMFA failures. He alone, besides Seham, could not be recalled.

Now while the vast majority of your posted links make none-to-subtle insinuations on the working relationship with AMFA/Delle, not one, except the teamsters link, makes any specific charge on his actions or inactions at UAL.

So we're back to your opinion, which is where we started.

 

[WNMECH]

Exactly.....

Still waiting......?

What have either of you exposed?

Lets start from the beginning;

amfa won WN representation in 2002 using, as part of their campaign, a promise to go hard on the company and negotiate "improvements" to their contract. The company proposes an extension with ZERO all around improvements and amfa rolled over on the members and took it. Your rebuttal to this was an apparent wage increase although you have never been clear about this or what the rate of increase was. This is, however, a contrast to what was written in the press.

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

If you are offered pay increases, but pay for those increases by giving up work rules and allowing greater contract flexibility, you have made ZERO improvements. You have only shifted and done so without the benefit of negotiating to provide the company with COST NEUTRAL options. How nice of amfa to take cars of the company like that.

As you correctly stated, several unions gave in to concessions during this time because the airlines were loosing money. No argument. However, you ignore the fact that Southwest Airline in 2004 made a profit of $373 million and amfa could not benefit from that. If you go into a new agreement term and have ZERO improvements, you have just made concessions. If you have just extended an agreement with a profitable company and gotten ZERO out of it, you have been screwed.

Again, my unanswered question; did amfa explain to the members that WN was profitable during a time they were essentially asking for concessions? Yes or No ?

My guess is NO. amfa did not.

I have not been reading here lately so I had to go though pages and pages of your BS in different threads to try and catch up. So sorry if I missed any of your brilliant rebuttal anywhere.

When we dumped the teamsters there was no "campaign" or "promise to go hard on the company".
It was a grass roots effort that took two weeks to get enough cards to file.
Everyone here wanted the IBT out.

You keep posting about a news release like it is fact.
Newsflash.
It was company spin.

It was the stated goal of Swa in that time to have cost neutral contracts from ALL workgroups that were negotiating at that time or were about to be.

We got raises, stock options and a new profitability bonus added to our compensation.

The 3 year extension allowed us to get our locals on solid footing and push us out to a time when we believed the whole industry may be doing better.

While SWA did still make profits and buy planes, the rest of the industry was going bankrupt.

We Swa mechanics brought this offer out to be voted on being full aware of what we where doing and knowing the state of the company.

We Swa mechanics voted it in.
Just like we voted out the IBT.
We do have free will.

Just because the company claims it to be cost neutral in their eyes does not mean we have LOST anything monetary. They were just putting a good face on the fact that they gave us 9% raises, stock options and another 1%-3% profitability bonus each year.
They had to make that claim so the other unions would not rape them in their negotiations.

During this time, we made money and the company made profits.

We don't call that concessions, we call it a win-win for all sides.

Why don't you explain what work rules we gave up that were so egregious that you can claim we made "ZERO improvements"?

I am waiting .....

 

[swamt]

I have not been reading here lately so I had to go though pages and pages of your BS in different threads to try and catch up. So sorry if I missed any of your brilliant rebuttal anywhere.

When we dumped the teamsters there was no "campaign" or "promise to go hard on the company".
It was a grass roots effort that took two weeks to get enough cards to file.
Everyone here wanted the IBT out.

You keep posting about a news release like it is fact.
Newsflash.
It was company spin.

It was the stated goal of Swa in that time to have cost neutral contracts from ALL workgroups that were negotiating at that time or were about to be.

We got raises, stock options and a new profitability bonus added to our compensation.

The 3 year extension allowed us to get our locals on solid footing and push us out to a time when we believed the whole industry may be doing better.

While SWA did still make profits and buy planes, the rest of the industry was going bankrupt.

We Swa mechanics brought this offer out to be voted on being full aware of what we where doing and knowing the state of the company.

We Swa mechanics voted it in.
Just like we voted out the IBT.
We do have free will.

Just because the company claims it to be cost neutral in their eyes does not mean we have LOST anything monetary. They were just putting a good face on the fact that they gave us 9% raises, stock options and another 1%-3% profitability bonus each year.
They had to make that claim so the other unions would not rape them in their negotiations.

During this time, we made money and the company made profits.

We don't call that concessions, we call it a win-win for all sides.

WNMECH, He has been answered on this post by me as well as others from SWA. Were are getting sick of repeating ourselves over and over again. So now alot of his post goes unanswered. Most of them are just the same ole Anomaly postings. He continuously will repost saying nobody has answered his questions in other threads so it looks like no one is countering his quotes.
I had to take a week off because of this guy. After my 4 day stay in Clear Skies with out internet, phone, or lap top, made me realize that ignoring him was better than answering him. Besides, almost all out here in cyberland know all about him by now, so usually responces are not needed. He was answered by me. If he claims not, then let him do his own research. Others have answered him as well...