August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

If DOH is what APA wants, then that's what we will get. I prefer a list by age.

Alphabetical by blood type.

 

[EastUS1]

Alphabetical by blood type.

Nah! If we're to abondon all reasonably established unionist principles; I vote we go with astrological signs, tarot card readings, some past-life regressions and aura scans to determine proper "seniority" placements. After all...It shold all be made "relative"...right?

 

[nevergiveup]

Nah! If we're to abondon all reasonably established unionist principles; I vote we go with astrological signs, tarot card readings, some past-life regressions and aura scans to determine proper "seniority" placements. After all...It shold all be made "relative"...right?

It's relative in West Virginia.

 

[traderjake]

Where have you been son, DOH is here and now, attrition and growth are very nice go ask you buddy, we saved Odell.

Luvthe9 doesn't go to work to make money, the pride of being the lowest paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic is all he needs.

When you retire don't spend all that attrition and growth in one place.

 

[nevergiveup]

Luvthe9 doesn't go to work to make money, the pride of being the lowest paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic is all he needs.

When you retire don't spend all that attrition and growth in one place.

red or white?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Luvthe9 doesn't go to work to make money, the pride of being the lowest paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic is all he needs.

When you retire don't spend all that attrition and growth in one place.

This lowest-paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic is perfectly happy to make the financial sacrifce today to protect those sacrifices (much larger) made by my colleagues junior and much-junior to me.

I am delighted to tell you that "this lowest-paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic" is very proud that many, if not most, of my contempory "lowest paid WB Captains over the North Atlantic" feel very much the way I do.

The junior pilots have taken the financial brunt of the attacks by crappy management and terrorists, all the while protecting (with those sacrifices to keep the doors open) the jobs of we "lowest paid WB Captains over the North Atlantic."

As a F/O quite a bit junior to me, you could just as easily say, "Thank You," and we could call it a day. But, you are obviously more about a pay raise. I understand that. It's sad. I wonder how your father, a true gentleman, would feel about that?

 

[CallawayGolf]

This lowest-paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic is perfectly happy to make the financial sacrifce today to protect those sacrifices (much larger) made by my colleagues junior and much-junior to me.

I am delighted to tell you that "this lowest-paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic" is very proud that many, if not most, of my contempory "lowest paid WB Captains over the North Atlantic" feel very much the way I do.

The junior pilots have taken the financial brunt of the attacks by crappy management and terrorists, all the while protecting (with those sacrifices to keep the doors open) the jobs of we "lowest paid WB Captains over the North Atlantic."

As a F/O quite a bit junior to me, you could just as easily say, "Thank You," and we could call it a day. But, you are obviously more about a pay raise. I understand that. It's sad. I wonder how your father, a true gentleman, would feel about that?

Would you not say that one of the characteristics of a gentleman is that such a person of unimpeachable scruples would honor his agreements, even if it were not technically enforceable in a court of law?

 

[traderjake]

This lowest-paid WB Captain over the North Atlantic is perfectly happy to make the financial sacrifce today to protect those sacrifices (much larger) made by my colleagues junior and much-junior to me.

As a F/O quite a bit junior to me, you could just as easily say, "Thank You," and we could call it a day. But, you are obviously more about a pay raise. I understand that. It's sad. I wonder how your father, a true gentleman, would feel about that?

I won't say thank you for keeping us on LOA 93 but Doug Parker might.

Yes, the reason I go to work and spend time away from my family is to make money. If you have a better reason to go to work let's hear it.

What's sad is a guy who thinks it's OK to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process with his fellow employees because he didn't get what he wanted and then pretends it's a noble thing to do. Think about that when you're over the North Atlantic in the middle of the night.

 

[EastUS1]

Would you not say that one of the characteristics of a gentleman is that such a person of unimpeachable scruples would honor his agreements, even if it were not technically enforceable in a court of law?

Logic Check 101: If you're inferring that by being held hostage by alpo; that I personally and of my own volition, somehow entered into any arbitration-seeking "agreement" myself, then you're equally "responsible" for anything usapa "agrees" to do sans any vote, and even honor-bound to support such...aren't you? Yet; you've no problem seeking to void your (by your own "logic") supposed "agreement" there...? Perhaps yet worse for your case is the fact that usapa was voted in, yes folks = VOTED in by a majority of your coworkers, with the full understanding of the intended platform per DOH. Wouldn't that (despite your personal displeasure) constitute an "agreement" among the work group?

Aww...what do I know? I don't even have any "Integrity Matters" T-shirts...Sigh!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Logic Check 101: If you're inferring that by being held hostage by alpo; that I personally, and of my own volition, somehow entered into any arbitration-seeking "agreement" myself, then you're equally "responsible" for anything usapa "agrees" to do sans any vote, and even honor-bound to support such...aren't you? Yet; you've no problem seeking to void your (by your own "logic") supposed "agreement" there...?

Aww...what do I know? I don't even have any "Integrity Matters" T-shirts...Sigh!

I inferred nothing about being a hostage; however as ALPA was the duly elected bargaining agent for you and had full authority to enter into agreements that bound you individually and all pilots at AAA/AWH/LCC collectively so long as your remained in the employee of the same. You are bound by any and all such agreements that were made as is evidenced by judge Conrad's enforcement of a permanent injunction against USAPA and its pilots in the employ of LCC. If you call that being a hostage, then there is an easy way to fix that problem ... decertify the bargaining agent and become at-will or choose to no longer be in the employ of LCC.

What agreements has USAPA made and which of those have I advocated that should not be honored? If a new JCBA using DOH was ratified today I would advocate that all pilots who choose to remain in the employ of LCC abide by the terms of the JCBA. Now if there was reason to believe that the JCBA constituted a breach in the bargaining agent's legally prescribed duties, I would still advocate that the JCBA terms and conditions be adhered to until such a time as a federal court determined if a breach had occurred and what the specific remedies for such a breach were. If a federal court upheld the unmodified JCBA, then I would advocate full adherence to the same, even if doing so resulted in personal financial harm in comparison to the unrealized scenario of some other outcome that never came to be.

 

[EastUS1]

What's sad is a guy who thinks it's OK to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process with his fellow employees because he didn't get what he wanted.

That's perhaps your stupidest-ever comment jake. NYC's already at the helm of an international A330. Exactly what more can you imagine that "he wanted" per seniority?

 

[nevergiveup]

Would you not say that one of the characteristics of a gentleman is that such a person of unimpeachable scruples would honor his agreements, even if it were not technically enforceable in a court of law?

As well as the other respecting his use of the law.

 

[EastUS1]

If you call that being a hostage, then there is an easy way to fix that problem ... decertify the bargaining agent .....

Done...Finally, and many years too late to serve to best effect.

The rest is left to courtrooms for now.

All are certainly entitled to sue to their hearts' content, and even go so far as to fantasize themselves paradigms of "Integrity", "spartans" or even "knights" who've "fought many battles with valor" in supposed "war", heck!...even "dire wolves", but I've precious little use for indulging such infantile nonsense.

 

[prechilill]

I won't say thank you for keeping us on LOA 93 but Doug Parker might.

Yes, the reason I go to work and spend time away from my family is to make money. If you have a better reason to go to work let's hear it.

What's sad is a guy who thinks it's OK to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process with his fellow employees because he didn't get what he wanted and then pretends it's a noble thing to do. Think about that when you're over the North Atlantic in the middle of the night.

True!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Done...Finally, and many years too late to serve to best effect.

The rest is left to courtrooms for now.

Quote out of context as noted by your ellipses. In order to be unbound by the existing agreements made by the bargaining agent you must either become at-will by having no bargaining agent at all or by departing for greener pastures. Electing a new bargaining agent to inherit all of your existing agreements until new agreements can be made/ratified is not the same thing as becoming at-will. Hence the reference to judge Conrad, who is enforcing by way of a permanent injunction on USAPA and all LCC pilots, that the current contracts that were brought about by ALPA's actions must still be honored without a status quo violation. If electing USAPA did away with the agreements made by ALPA, there would be no status quo and no enforceable injunction.