August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

That update above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is a joke.

"Integrity is paramount in any organization; it’s even more important in an entity structured like USAPA, since there is no higher authority (other than the Federal Government) to oversee improprieties such as ALPA has with a national officer make-up."

Keep trying to convince yourselves.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Congratulations to the new CLT BPR reps and good luck to them. I applaud their intention to establish a survey mechanism in order to get regular feedback from the line pilot.

But I couldn''t help but wonder, if Mike Cleary was still president who would be appointing committee members today? When he was president who was appointing committee members back then? During his years as president, who was the driving force behind most of the initiatives undertaken by the union, legal or otherwise, the president or the BPR? Most important, did the BPR reps who supported Cleary object to what was the balance of power at that time?

Regarding the medical issue, the former president has been on medical leave since he left office, as has the former vice president. It can't be the flu. Were both officers medically fit to remain on active status while serving? It is a puzzlement.

Certainly, the BPR is the body closest to the rank and file. But a roughly divided BPR on so many issues is often awkward and slow in reacting to events and circumstances. There is an important role for a fast acting, agile leadership setting the agenda at times. The BPR is the point of contact between union and rank and file. The leadership is the the point of contact between union and most external agencies, to include management.

Perhaps it's time to revisit the UOM and make some changes to reflect the real world we live in.

All of this is moot if the merger proceeds.

Just sayin.

'84

 

[snapthis]

"If there were corruption in the officer ranks (we are not saying there is), it would be very difficult to uncover or prove, since they control everything. This is why it is vitally important that the Board have the majority of the power. It is far more difficult to have eleven people scheme a diabolical plan than one or two. Again, we are not implying that anyone is doing any such thing, but it is critical that we do not create or allow an environment where such things could happen. Actions that look innocent enough on the surface can turn into much bigger issues."

It's worth repeating...."Again, we are not implying that anyone is doing any such thing"

Well, you just did.

Situational ethics.

Family values growing up out East You just can't help yourselves. It's normal behavior.

 

[luvthe9]

Great Letter.........................
[background=transparent]This last USAPA meeting was very contentious with a majority of the BPR demanding that Gary Hummel relinquish control of the union and adhere to the Constitution and by-laws as was intended at USAPA's inception. Gary did not want to give up that control, but more and more he has acted as though the BPR is just a side show and all decisions should be made at the executive level.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]The 3 PHL BPR Reps and the 3 new CLT Reps have begun the campaign to take back their rightful place in the union and it couldn't come too soon.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]Whether by design or just circumstances (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt), Gary Hummel lost track of what USAPA was all about. It is a bottom up union where the members vote for BPR Representation and it's the BPR that makes the decisions. The Executive Branch has it's duties and obligations to follow the Constitution and By-laws and to follow the will of the majority of elected BPR members.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]This last go around with the MOU being secretly negotiated with ZERO input by the BPR was the final straw. Once Gary and the Negotiating Committee got the MOU from the company and had the pretty brochures with the talking points all printed up, it was only than that they told the BPR what was in it. Rightfully so, the BPR and most pilots were furious at the process. How did we get the MOU? Could it have been better? What did we miss? How much more could we have received? Gary will tell you nothing, but obviously when the BPR demanded retroactive pay, the company agreed. We will never know how a unified body could have achieved more because it was never offered. The company got what it wanted us to have with no input by our pilots. [/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]Yes, most pilots voted for the MOU because it was basically a done deal by the time the BPR and the pilot group saw the finished product. That vote doesn't justify what happened.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]On the issue of Gary Hummel's eligibility to remain President after losing his medical. In another heated debate, Gary's argument was that since the company is paying him and they are not forcing him to use his sick time, he should remain President. The BPR asked the USAPA attorney if Gary could remain President forever under these circumstances with the company paying him but not having a medical, the answer was yes. This is unacceptable and the BPR passed a resolution that Gary has to get his medical back within a year or there will be a new election.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]I am not questioning Gary's honesty, but I know I have a problem with Gary remaining in office, not eligible to fly, paid by the company and not having to use his sick time. It gives the appearance of a conflict of interest. [/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]If Gary was forced to leave tomorrow, he would not be able to go back to the line, so it could be argued that he needs to remain in office to keep that paycheck coming in. You or I would be forced to use sick time until it ran out and then long term disability. As long as Gary remains President with the company paying him, he does not have to meet those requirements. It could also be argued that it's human nature to identify with the side that's paying you. I'm sure that is not happening here, but it could give that appearance, especially during negotiations. [/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]If you are going to be a union President, you should be able to perform the duties that the other members of your union perform. That way, you have "skin" in the game. No union officer should be above the requirements that any other member must have to remain at the airline.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]The other way the BPR will take back control will be by the staffing of committees that Gary has not done. The By-laws state that the President selects the committee member candidates and the BPR votes on them. By not staffing the committees, the BPR is not given the ability to decide who will be staffing those committees. With proper staffing, the BPR decides who is on the committees and once again takes control.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]This last meeting is a big step for establishing the intent of USAPA and I applaud the BPR members for taking it back.[/background]
[background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]Of course, as usual DCA and PHX BPR Reps sided with Gary. The good news is the PHL and CLT are united so who cares what DCA does. They make themselves irrelevant. [/background]

 

[snapthis]

All that^^^^^^drama^^^^^^^^^^^is not going to matter after the merger.

There is going to be a modification to your union: USAPA.

 

[Piedmont1984]

luvthe9

The last sentence of that letter says a great deal. It says the PHX and DCA pilots are also irrelevant. What's that, a little over 2000 pilots? It implies that the CLT and PHL pilots who voted for the losing candidates, or no longer vote because they have become disillusioned are also irrelevant, or the ALPA loyalists who never wanted to go on this ride in the first place. What's that, another 1000 dues paying pilots - and all of them irrelevant eh?

USAPA Is our union, the CLT and PHL reps won fair and square. But so did Hummel and Bradford. Any pretense that one camp or the other enjoys a huge mandate or endorsement is self delusion.

We are a weak union. We are not the APA. Some of our BPR reps need to recognize both the distinction and the reality.

 

[3dtv]

"Of course, as usual..."
You lie and spin and make crap up to suit your own desires.

 

[electricjet98]

luvthe9

The last sentence of that letter says a great deal. It says the PHX and DCA pilots are also irrelevant. What's that, a little over 2000 pilots? It implies that the CLT and PHL pilots who voted for the losing candidates, or no longer vote because they have become disillusioned are also irrelevant, or the ALPA loyalists who never wanted to go on this ride in the first place. What's that, another 1000 dues paying pilots - and all of them irrelevant eh?

USAPA Is our union, the CLT and PHL reps won fair and square. But so did Hummel and Bradford. Any pretense that one camp or the other enjoys a huge mandate or endorsement is self delusion.

We are a weak union. We are not the APA. Some of our BPR reps need to recognize both the distinction and the reality.

"The 3 PHL BPR Reps and the 3 new CLT Reps have begun the campaign to take back their rightful place in the union and it couldn't come too soon".

"Of course, as usual DCA and PHX BPR Reps sided with Gary. The good news is the PHL and CLT are united so who cares what DCA does. They make themselves irrelevant".



Obviously, the "rightful" place for the PHL & CLT Reps is dictating the path of USAPA to the DCA & PHX Reps, Officers and members.

While I disagree with many of your comments and opinions KV, I will whole-heartedly agree that you are one of the more pragmatic east pilots...with the balls to state those pragmatic thoughts in what must be a sometimes hostile environment.

 

[767one]

Congratulations to the new CLT BPR reps and good luck to them. I applaud their intention to establish a survey mechanism in order to get regular feedback from the line pilot.

But I couldn''t help but wonder, if Mike Cleary was still president who would be appointing committee members today? When he was president who was appointing committee members back then? During his years as president, who was the driving force behind most of the initiatives undertaken by the union, legal or otherwise, the president or the BPR? Most important, did the BPR reps who supported Cleary object to what was the balance of power at that time?

Regarding the medical issue, the former president has been on medical leave since he left office, as has the former vice president. It can't be the flu. Were both officers medically fit to remain on active status while serving? It is a puzzlement.

Certainly, the BPR is the body closest to the rank and file. But a roughly divided BPR on so many issues is often awkward and slow in reacting to events and circumstances. There is an important role for a fast acting, agile leadership setting the agenda at times. The BPR is the point of contact between union and rank and file. The leadership is the the point of contact between union and most external agencies, to include management.

Perhaps it's time to revisit the UOM and make some changes to reflect the real world we live in.

All of this is moot if the merger proceeds.

Just sayin.

'84

I see a pattern here and it goes all the way back to our alpa days. When our pension was given away one of the DCA reps who was on some sort of leave and had accepted a job with Jet Blue was one of those who voted our pension away. He was not the only one who voted and ran but then I can't remember the circumstances with the others. I think one went to work in marketing with Airbus just after the "more airplanes that God can count" order. It doesn't seem to matter what the name of the union is it seems that a number of the officers are there to serve themselves and "service" the members! Rather than stick around and show their faces to the members they slither off to company jobs, the TSA, FAA, and others.

All the best,

Bob

 

[traderjake]

Their willingness to stand up to powerful and overwhelming opposition from both the Company and at times, our own union, is the sole reason that you are earning retrospective pay right now.

The new CLT Reps don't waste any time, they lie to us in the first paragraph of the first update.

 

[luvthe9]

You found yourself in a court in the SFO area.

True that. Ouch.
Can you say spank?

 

[Freighterguynow]

There is going to be a modification to your union: USAPA.

you got that right - 12,000 to 1,000.

Sucks to be you.

 

[Claxon]

[background=Red]timestamp='[/background][/color]1381008704' [background=Red]post='[/background]1029685']
I see a pattern here and it goes all the way back to our [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]alpa[/background][/background][/background] days. When our pension was given away one of the [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]DCA[/background][/background][/background] reps who was on some sort of leave and had accepted a job with Jet Blue was one of those who voted our pension away. He was not the only one who voted and ran but then I can't remember the circumstances with the others. I think one went to work in marketing with Airbus just after the "more airplanes that God can count" order. It doesn't seem to matter what the name of the union is it seems that a number of the officers are there to serve themselves and "service" the members! Rather than stick around and show their faces to the members they slither off to company jobs, the [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]TSA[/background][/background][/background], FAA, and others.

All the best,

Bob

Very true Bob. You have the west pilots (my opinion not yours bob) that stand up in a meeting with [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]doug[/background][/background][/background] [background=Red][background=Red][background=Red]parker[/background][/background][/background] and accuse the East pilots of slowing down, then complain they have no contract. Pink underwear is the style of the west.

 

[snapthis]

You found yourself in a court in the SFO area.

True that. Ouch.
Can you say spank?

Yep.......Spanked

26 September 2013
.

[font=Lucida Grande'][background=#f5f5f5]As we predicted, earlier today, Judges Tashima, Ikuna and Smith of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an order denying USAPA’s Writ of Mandamus petition, as well as USAPA’s Motion to Stay the trial before Judge Silver, stating that USAPA “has not demonstrated that this cases warrants the intervention of this court by means of the extraordinary remedy of mandamus.” You can read the order [/background][/font]here[font=Lucida Grande'][background=#f5f5f5]. With today’s order from the Ninth, there is nothing standing in between USAPA and DFR trial number two. [/background][/font]

[font=Lucida Grande'][background=#f5f5f5]Sincerely,[/background][/font]

[font=Lucida Grande'][background=#f5f5f5]Leonidas, LLC[/background][/font]

 

[Claxon]

APA pilots favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpSFvQ-0p2I