APFA National Officers Election

[MiAAmi]

I never endorsed anyone. I only stated to know who your voting for.

 

[Bob Owens]

I thought the mechanics were rough on each other over this senoirity thing!

 

[chisprings]

I will check chisprings, but I do not think so at the moment. They have their own board on myfamily and nAAtive F/As have theirs on 4m. It is unfortunate APFA closed their website because there was a lot of dialogue between the two groups there.

Thanks 1011. The APFA BB was shut down as a cost-savings measure. I think legal costs were the issue. The lack of dialouge between the two groups is disheartening. The 4m is hardly related to F/A issues anymore and is simply some ultra-left wing liberal discussion group and anti-TWA f/a discussion group. I did find Nancy McGuire's email on the 4m and have sent a personal email to her asking for the information.

thanks ChiSprings

p.s. TW 1011's were the Cadillac's of the sky!! I miss the rotating beacons.

 

[silverbirdFLL]

J.W is counting on the "no one voting" factor to get reelected. The "no one voting factor" is what got him elected in the first place. As of now my only sure thing is that I WILL BE VOTING. As for the canadates,it's still too early X-CEPT for the JOHN WARD SLATE!!! That is a big FAT NO!! Juan Johnson is the only one I'd even consider of the lot. As for the "T-was" I can only state a knowledge of Nancy McGuires(sp) backround and experiance from my prior corrispondance w/her from the old APFA BB. She has my vote.
Listen nAAtive f/a's if you truely believe that it's the BOD that has control then having a "T-was" f/a on the EC only ADD's to not de-trAAckes from mix. Even if a total "T-was" slate was voted in to office the SIA would/could not just disappear. Remember it's the BOD who has CONTROL and the membership would ultimately have the final say on the matter.
Let's for ONCE think OUTSIDE the box and consider ALL our options. This is one vote that WOUN'T be taken AAway from us.
Knowlage is power. So learn all you can about each and everyone who is running for office. Consider each position seperately. Do NOT feel you have to vote for a "SLATE". Evaluate each individule and the position they are running for as "ONE" in the same. If you feel that an administraion made up of "free" thinkers and "individule" ideas is what WE need these next four years then VOTE for "individules" not "slates". Just VOTE!!!!!
Peace
SB

 

[jimntx]

Are there any websites for TWA APFA candidates? Based on their entire platform, I would be willing to vote for them. I believe they know what true unionism is all about. I will not let arguments over seniority influence my decision. APFA needs radical change - it needs to stop being the base of all this greediness I got mine screw everyone else attitude. AMR has abused us for years and then we turn around and abuse fellow F/A's - shameful. So if there are any TW sites - please post them.

ChiSprings - nAAtive ORD

The following are not "TW" sites, per se. However, former TWA employees are free to join and post. All are found at Yahoo Groups.

AAfurloughed - moderated by "AJ" Jensen (furloughed AA f/a)
APFAboard - moderated by TJ Norris (30+year AA flight attendant and licensed attorney)
apfaELECTIONS - also moderated by TJ

Nancy McGuire, former TWA, who is running for APFA secretary posts frequently on APFAboard.

On apfaELECTIONS, TJ is allowing any candidate to post. She is also providing links to any known election-related websites.

(AAfurloughed is limited to flight attendants, but I know they don't have to be furloughed to join.)

 

[L1011Ret]

Jimntx has added the only three I know of. apfaboard, apfaELECTION, AAfurloughed.

 

[flydcoop]

SB,

Check out Steve Ellis at www.turnourunionaround.com. I believe he is the real deal. I met him at the short DFW layover, he never said he was a lawyer, just he was running. My attitude was "yeah, whatever" but I went on his website. Darn impressive. Art Tang is endorsing him and if you've met Art, that speaks volumes!

I'd like to get some TWA blood in there as well. We all have our opinions about the integration which is in the hands of the court now. However, they should never have been "shut-out" of the concessionary agreement like they were.

I sincerely hope that if they are elected, they don't work to destroy our union. I hope they realize who the reAAl enemy is...the TWA pilots already have (yeah, I fly out of STL). They wanted to hate us but when they saw how much we hated the management of this company they have been quite nice. They had very different ideas about what it would be like to be employed by AA. They've also seen it with other departments, it's not just F/A's "sour grapes".

Before you attack me with "don't like it, go elsewhere...blah-blah, ad nauseum" I must say, "I love my job (though I didn't this summer and I'm an evil witch after a minimum layover), I love my co-workers and bases but I CAN'T STAND THE WAY THIS COMPANY HANDLES EMPLOYEE RELATIONS.

Two things can happen, the APFA can implode with the upcoming fractured elections or we will regroup and be more resolute than a 98% strike vote in 2000. I have never seen morale this bad. This is one P*ssed off work group.

Hey Gerard, you sent us a "smoke-up-the-ass" message during November via American Way saying how important we were. We laughed hysterically and bitterly. Pull together , bend over, whatever.

I showed up for my trip over X-Mas for my own selfish reasons. I didn't care for the so-called "sickout" but certainly don't blame others.


Hey AA, holiday pay, a great incentive. You published a story in AWay magazine about how companies cannot afford to pay bonuses but reward workers with "little gimme's". Do you even READ American Way? It's been very ironic lately.

That would have been Perfect Attendance and the SOS program.

If we're doing a great job how can that possibly cost more than not calling in sick and making our most frequent fliers happy?

Upper managements families fly positive space and bump revenue without the mgmt member with them (see N*Codes).

I don't begrudge this of upper management, just when only their family is travelling and unwilling to be "bumped" off a flight...Peter Dolara, are you listening?

Coop

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I'd like to get some TWA blood in there as well. We all have our opinions about the integration which is in the hands of the court now. However, they should never have been "shut-out" of the concessionary agreement like they were.

I sincerely hope that if they are elected, they don't work to destroy our union.

While I can appreciate your desire to be inclusive, you readily admit your fear that the TWA people could possibly work to destroy the union. I will only vote for those individuals who have stated their commitment to defending APFA's position as defendant in the lawsuits. That is inconsistent with the positions taken by the TWA candidates.

Further, I will not elect anybody currently on furlough...I do not believe that it is in our best interest to elect people who are not in an active status.

I respect the TWA flight attendants, but in this case, their goals are inconsistent with those of pre-acquisition AA flight attendants. ( I refuse to use the term NAATIVE since that is a term that was coined by TWA. I find it to be pejorative).

 

[L1011Ret]

The TWA F/As agree that the term "nAAtive" was not coined by them but by AA F/As in response to TWA F/A requests for APFA to address a number of TWA related issues. Being "nAAtive" implied the TWA F/As were "different" members of APFA than the TWAers were. You are correct, it was and is pejorative - towards the TWA F/As.
You say and I quote, "Further, I will not elect anybody currently on furlough...I do not believe that is in our best interest to elect people who are not in active status." Of couse most of the 5800 F/As on furlough are TWA F/As. Most are dues paying members of APFA. It is true many of their goals are different than yours. However, the purpose of a union is to represent ALL members with different agendas, not just a select group.
I see you are for exclusion rather than inclusion. That is inconsistent with the Union charter. Spoken like a true "nAAtive."

 

[StraaightTaalk]

The TWA F/As agree that the term "nAAtive" was not coined by them but by AA F/As in response to TWA F/A requests for APFA to address a number of TWA related issues. Being "nAAtive" implied the TWA F/As were "different" members of APFA than the TWAers were. You are correct, it was and is pejorative - towards the TWA F/As.
You say and I quote, "Further, I will not elect anybody currently on furlough...I do not believe that is in our best interest to elect people who are not in active status." Of couse most of the 5800 F/As on furlough are TWA F/As. Most are dues paying members of APFA. It is true many of their goals are different than yours. However, the purpose of a union is to represent ALL members with different agendas, not just a select group.
I see you are for exclusion rather than inclusion. That is inconsistent with the Union charter. Spoken like a true "nAAtive."

Actually, the very first time I saw the term "NAATIVE" was when it was used by a TWA flight attendant to derisively describe the pre-acquisition AA flight attendants.
Your use of the term in your last sentence indicates to me that your description of the term's origin is flawed, and that you, in fact, do not believe your own version of where and how the term originated.

You seem to think that only the TWA flight attendants are entitled to protect and promote their "agenda," calling anybody who objects such names as "exclusionary." However, I see their attempt to put pre-acquisition AA flight attendants on the street, by seeking to force an integration, to be "exclusionary," as well.

You are quite entertaining. You certainly try to twist words to accomodate to your skewed view of reality. My decision to not vote for anybody who is currently on furlough status has nothing to do with being "exclusionary." Quite frankly, there are many of us on the AA side with alot of respect for the TWA flight attendants, but clearly, their agenda is different from ours, and, again, this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but people vote for those candidates who are most closely aligned to their own way of thinking. Nothing exclusionary about it. A union should represent all members, who they are responsible for representing, at that time, but it doesn't mean that I have to vote for people whose interests are different from my own.

Regarding the furlough issue, I would not vote for anyone, whether they be TWA or pre-acquisition AA, if they were currently on furlough status.

You seem to be a true champion of the TWA flight attendants, Mr. Chamberlin. I can applaud that. However, I would like to ask you where you were when the hard-working TWA flight attendants went on strike? Were you one of those pilots screaming epithets at the strikers as you crossed their picket line to get into Hanger 12? Or did you throw pennies at them, as many of your colleagues did?

Certainly, there were MANY of us on the OUTSIDE, echoing the sentiments of the IFFA membership, that did not appreciate the exclusionary tactics of ALPA as they helped TWA promote and protect their scab workforce.

 

[TransWorldONE]

From what I remember the term nAAtive didn't "start" out as negative, at least on the twa side...it was prefered by us over the term "real AA" which some AAers had started using. As in, "Are you real AA or one of the Clampets?" (which was one of the many welcoming names we were givin)

Staaight, you seem to know a lot about us, are you sure you're not a trAAnsplant from twa?

 

[L1011Ret]

I do believe the TWA F/As were done a great injustice and I do support their efforts to process their quest through the legal system. I also strongly believe in the right to speak freely. I am not singling out StraightTalk but there are a lot of posters who show a lot of hatred for the TWA F/As JUST BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE TWA F/As deserved what they got and have "no right" to feel the way they do - angry about what happened to them. The constant diatribes by some posters - you got two years - you're lucky to have a job" belie an arrogance and hatred. As we have just seen from the post of Pat Gibbs, there is great hatred within the APFA ranks for TWAers. And Pat concludes that much of this along with the web site of Ward supporters complete with swasticka and gay bashing is linked and allied with the Ward group. That web site was about as sick as it gets.
As for 1986, I was flying the line. And strangely I held a position within ALPA. But I had nothing to with the strike. Although some pilots felt threatened by the F/A strike, it was my position that they had every right to do so.

 

[jsn25911]

From what I remember the term nAAtive didn't "start" out as negative, at least on the twa side...it was prefered by us over the term "real AA" which some AAers had started using. As in, "Are you real AA or one of the Clampets?" (which was one of the many welcoming names we were givin)

Staaight, you seem to know a lot about us, are you sure you're not a trAAnsplant from twa?

What an interesting question - I hope straighttalk answers it. It would explain a lot. However, I do understand that straighttalk doesn't have to share that with us, but I hope they do.

Maybe by the nonanswer - we will have our answer

 

[medr]

A hypothetical question. Let's suppose that John Ward and his cohorts are not re-elected. Will you see them back on the line as flight attendants, working under the conditions they ensured would be ratified?

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I do believe the TWA F/As were done a great injustice and I do support their efforts to process their quest through the legal system. I also strongly believe in the right to speak freely. I am not singling out StraightTalk but there are a lot of posters who show a lot of hatred for the TWA F/As JUST BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE TWA F/As deserved what they got and have "no right" to feel the way they do - angry about what happened to them. The constant diatribes by some posters - you got two years - you're lucky to have a job" belie an arrogance and hatred. As we have just seen from the post of Pat Gibbs, there is great hatred within the APFA ranks for TWAers. And Pat concludes that much of this along with the web site of Ward supporters complete with swasticka and gay bashing is linked and allied with the Ward group. That web site was about as sick as it gets.
As for 1986, I was flying the line. And strangely I held a position within ALPA. But I had nothing to with the strike. Although some pilots felt threatened by the F/A strike, it was my position that they had every right to do so.

I have no hatred or animosity for the TWA flight attendants. In fact, I have alot of respect for them with regard to the battles they have fought, a respect, however, which seems to not be mirrored in the opposite direction.

Trust me, we have fought plenty of the same battles, with different foes, over the years.

The TWA flight attendants came with the attitude that we, at AA, were, somehow, all newcomers to the industry, despite our own substantial years of service. During the days preceding and immediately following the acquisition, message boards, such as these, were littered with diatribes from TWA flight attendants telling us we had no idea how to run a union or an airline. Needless to say, APFA has its problems, but, then again, so did IFFA, and so does the IAM.

I do not believe that ANYBODY in this world who suffers a loss, deserves what they get. We are all mere victims of circumstance, fate, and, depending on your spiritual orientation, the influence of a higher power.

Patt Gibbs' missive, with regard to the TWA integration, should be taken as opinion. On the one hand, she claims to have opposed the treatment of the TWA flight attendants, and, on the other hand, she claims to have drafted the resolution which effectively sealed their fate. If she, in fact, truly opposed the resolution, which, by her own admission, she drafted, it would have been morally irresponsible for her to do something which so conflicted with her own moral compass.

And, sorry to disappoint you, but I am not, nor have I ever been a TWA flight attendant. I am, however, somebody who pays close attention to the events surrounding me in this highly volatile industry.

The underlying problem here is that AA should never have purchased TWA. I can certainly empathize with the TWA flight attendants. Their company was bought by the world's largest airline, giving them some false hope for a prosperous and stable future....but, as somebody who has weathered more battles with this company than I care to remember, I can assure you that there are no guarantees at AA, for ANY of us.