Any news on TLV service and AA's obligations?

[nycbusdriver]

Your collective bargaining agents should have championed better and more stringent work rules in the CBA. Besides res told me seat 1A is pilot crewrest. No bunks onboard? DL 330s have bunks in the far aft occupying space that could be used for a cargo container, same on their 763s and oh btw their F/As are non-union.

Josh

 
The pilots are happy as pigs in s**t (is that insensitive? Pigs? TLV?)  They have bunks and a reserved Envoy seat.  As I said in my post, it's the CABIN crews that are no so happy.
 
Non-union, or not, I have no argument with the fact that DL treats their crews like team members rather than liabilities (like another carrier I know of.)

 

[700UW]

Actually NYC they dont,
 
Check this out:
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/62602435887/

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Folks, let's please stay on the subject.  Thank you!

 

[FWAAA]

Well I dont think MIA to TLV is such a good route at the moment, LY pulled out and no other carrier flies it.
 
If there was a demand for it, someone would be flying it.

You may be right.    There have been quite a few people (not you, mind you) posting that once US and AA are combined, new AA needs to begin flying from PHX to Japan and China and lots of other far-away places.   My response has always been the same as yours:   there obviously isn't enough demand for nonstop routes from PHX to all those places or else UA or NH or JL or even US would be flying those routes already.   Same thing with the dreamers who speculate that CLT will see new flights to Japan and China and every other big city in South America besides GRU and GIG.     

 

[Kev3188]

Folks, let's please stay on the subject.  Thank you!

 
Yes please!

 

[700UW]

None of these threads ever stay on topic, with the likes of WT and 737823

 

[Kev3188]

You may be right.    There have been quite a few people (not you, mind you) posting that once US and AA are combined, new AA needs to begin flying from PHX to Japan and China and lots of other far-away places.   My response has always been the same as yours:   there obviously isn't enough demand for nonstop routes from PHX to all those places or else UA or NH or JL or even US would be flying those routes already.   Same thing with the dreamers who speculate that CLT will see new flights to Japan and China and every other big city in South America besides GRU and GIG.

Probably the same cats that think a given merger would be cool 'cause it means seeing a 747 at their home airport...

At any rate, how much traffic is there between MIA-TLV, anyway? I get that there is a large Jewish population in Florida, but most of those are retirees from places like New York that are running out the clock in the sun, no?

 

[737823]

Probably the same cats that think a given merger would be cool 'cause it means seeing a 747 at their home airport...

At any rate, how much traffic is there between MIA-TLV, anyway? I get that there is a large Jewish population in Florida, but most of those are retirees from places like New York that are running out the clock in the sun, no?

Its a very large market, approximately 111 PDEW each day. And its not just Jews, many Israelis live in and vacation in Miami, especially around Aventura area of Dade County. LY served the route for many years, suspended it when the fuel prices ran up in 2008 and was barred from resuming the route due to Category II status. This has since been resolved however they do not have suitable aircraft available to reopen the route.

One month can't account for seasonal traffic variations, but the market is heavily leaning towards New York, California and Florida. But still, it's more than Jewish communities. Miami, LA and New York all have large Jewish communities, but large Israeli communities as well. Plus, there is a lot of biotech traffic from Boston and San Francisco that has nothing to do with religion; plus a variety of telecom, biotech, banking and real estate companies from Israel that run out of Miami (Ivax, Africa Israel Corp., ECI, Talla-Com), as Israeli companies have always been attracted to basing U.S. ops out of South Florida.

There's also this that skews the numbers heavily towards New York: the tourism market is insanely skewed towards packaged vacations - such as the government-sponsored birthright trips - which are often organized with El Al, and require that people find their own way to New York or Los Angeles on seperate ticket.

FY2011

NYCTLV: 1,250 PDEW
LAXTLV: 202 PDEW
MIATLV: 111 PDEW
SFOTLV: 100 PDEW
CHITLV: 80 PDEW
BOSTLV: 74 PDEW
PHLTLV: 46 PDEW

MIATLV and SFOTLV are two of very few trans-Atlantic markets with 100 PDEW+ not served non-stop; but El Al is probably coming back to South Florida now that the FAA restrictions have been lifted.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Duly noted.
 
Separately, Category II surprises me. 

 

[700UW]

111 Passengers doenst justify a 200+ seat airplane like a 767s, 777s, A330s, a 747 or an A380 to fly a route that every carrier has abandoned.
 
If LY doesnt fly it, you expect a US carrier too?
 
EL Al (LY) ended the flight in 2008 due to high fuel prices, they started two weekly flights a week in 2006 and ended it in 2008.

 

[nycbusdriver]

El AL wouldn't have the feed that a US carrier would have from a fortress hub.  
 
PHL-TLV is obscenely profitable due to the cargo.  I bet it would operate in the black with a 50% load factor.

 

[700UW]

Actually EL AL and AA did codeshare on the flight.
 
And after it ended they codeshared on MIA-JFK on AA and then connected to LY out of JFK.

 

[700UW]

111 passengers isnt much to fill a widebody and MIA-TLV was one of the longest flights from MIA to an international city.

 

[FWAAA]

111 passengers isnt much to fill a widebody and MIA-TLV was one of the longest flights from MIA to an international city.

And yet the 46 PDEW in the PHLTLV market is enough?   You constantly post that US is looking to add a second daily flight from PHL.  
 
Yes, hubs enable low O&D markets to enjoy nonstops.  PHL is probably pulling passengers from all over the country, including the west coast.   It's an amazing hub.   No question about that. 
 
But so is MIA.   The 111 PDEW is the MIA local traffic, not counting connections to/from TPA, MCO, RSW,  EYW,  various Caribbean islands, plus Central and South America.   Because of huge local traffic between LAX and MIA, AA flies multiple widebodies each day on that route, so filling every seat would not be an issue.

 

[robbedagain]

is there a way to tell how many local vs connecting traffic for the tlv flight? also is it more profitable from tlv to phl than the other way around?