What to expect USAir PHL-TLV

[robbedagain]

even if or when they settle that dispute.. i could still see a possible mia tlv in addition to a 2nd phl tlv run

 

[cynic]

150 people per day each way is actually fairly good, since half or more of the people will be connecting anyway. It's not like there is a huge local demand from Charlotte to Rio or Frankfurt. You want to argue that it's a long, thin route with sketchy economics? I'll agree with you. I just think they will give it a shot at some point and you don't.

If their research shows that adding a flight will grow the market, it becomes much more viable.

 

[WorldTraveler]

My assumption has always been that US and any other profit-motivated company would do what generates the highest returns financially for the company.

MIA-TLV would be a route that is focused on a single market and would be built on less than 20% connecting, not half, based on existing data. That is why LY used a 762, not something larger even though they have larger planes. 150 people on a 762 is a decent load; on a 772 that is not enough people to make money.

CLT is in the right place to pick up a lot of traffic between the US and both GIG and FRA. MIA is not "on the way" between many places and TLV which is precisely why the market would be so heavily focused on local traffic - and would be a high cost route with little financial benefit to US beyond the current PHL route or by adding JFK-TLV which makes far more sense in terms of the local market, if AA can resolve the legal issues with Israel.

 

[robbedagain]

would clt-tlv be economical route to do? may be say something like mia-clt-tlv?

 

[FWAAA]

would clt-tlv be economical route to do? may be say something like mia-clt-tlv?

No. There's no O&D to TLV from CLT. BOS or JFK or PHL all make more sense than CLT as they all feature more O&D. The higher the proportion of local nonstop passengers, generally the higher the average fare. From CLT, probably 95% or more of the flight's passengers would be connecting, and that leaves a very small number of O&D passengers from whom to extract higher nonstop fares. From the numbers that eolesen posted, about 83% of the USA-TLV O&D is in NYC, LAX, SFO, MIA, BOS, ORD and PHL. Those are the logical gateways. Not CLT.

For new AA, LAX might work, but again, for the same reasons that WT has mentioned about MIA, it is not an ideal gateway to TLV because of limited connections that make sense. LAX gets frequent service from SAN and SFO and a few very small California Eagle cities, but LAX would have to survive pretty much on Los Angeles O&D. NYC has more than five times more O&D to TLV as does LAX, and that's why NYC makes more sense.

MIA-CLT-TLV? No. If you're talking about the same widebody making a stop at CLT, MIA-CLT would be a very expensive leg, and once again, there aren't enough local passengers at CLT. New AA already features flights to JFK from SEA, SFO, LAX, LAS, BOS and MIA. That covers most all of the country's traffic to TLV.

MIA-TLV might be an ideal 787 route if that plane delivers the fuel economy as promised (and if it gets back into the air sometime soon). New AA has about 20 787-8s scheduled for delivery beginning late in 2014.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks for the info i did not realize that o d makes the difference and im actually surprised bout lax esp as large as that city is

 

[700UW]

Believe it or not Charlotte has a very big Jewish population, it surprised me.

http://www.shalomcharlotte.org/

And before the 767s were needed for the European expansion, we flew a 767 daily from CLT-MIA-CLT and it was always full of passengers and freight.

 

[737823]

Believe it or not Charlotte has a very big Jewish population, it surprised me.

http://www.shalomcharlotte.org/

Big deal, whatever is in CLT pales in comparison to BOS, MIA, LAX, SFO and of course NYC. And it isn't just Jews going on Birthright trips that drive travel demand to Israel it's also commercial ties and Israeli expatriate population.

The Israeli Consulate in New York has registered 140,000 Israeli heads of household or individuals living in the region.
Aside from New York and Los Angeles, the metropolitan areas of Boston, San Francisco and Miami also have significant Israeli populations.

http://www.jta.org/n...l-hard-to-count

Josh

 

[700UW]

Josh who gives a rat's behind what you think about CLT, most people wouldnt know there is a large jewish population in the CLT area, Leon Levine the founder of family dollar is from here and lives here and is one of the richest men in the US.

Now joshie, go back under you're bridge.

 

[737823]

Josh who gives a rat's behind what you think about CLT, most people wouldnt know there is a large jewish population in the CLT area, Leon Levine the founder of family dollar is from here and lives here and is one of the richest men in the US.

Now joshie, go back under you're bridge.

You are correct, most people wouldn't know because it doesn't exist

Wow a total of less than 31,000 estimated in the entire state or 0.3% of the population, probably mostly students studying at UNC and Duke.

http://www.jewishvir...l/usjewpop.html

Josh

 

[SS255]

No. There's no O&D to TLV from CLT. BOS or JFK or PHL all make more sense than CLT as they all feature more O&D. The higher the proportion of local nonstop passengers, generally the higher the average fare. From CLT, probably 95% or more of the flight's passengers would be connecting, and that leaves a very small number of O&D passengers from whom to extract higher nonstop fares. From the numbers that eolesen posted, about 83% of the USA-TLV O&D is in NYC, LAX, SFO, MIA, BOS, ORD and PHL. Those are the logical gateways. Not CLT.

For new AA, LAX might work, but again, for the same reasons that WT has mentioned about MIA, it is not an ideal gateway to TLV because of limited connections that make sense. LAX gets frequent service from SAN and SFO and a few very small California Eagle cities, but LAX would have to survive pretty much on Los Angeles O&D. NYC has more than five times more O&D to TLV as does LAX, and that's why NYC makes more sense.

MIA-CLT-TLV? No. If you're talking about the same widebody making a stop at CLT, MIA-CLT would be a very expensive leg, and once again, there aren't enough local passengers at CLT. New AA already features flights to JFK from SEA, SFO, LAX, LAS, BOS and MIA. That covers most all of the country's traffic to TLV.

I live in the Jewish Hood in Los Angeles, and I can see a few nonstops per week LAX-TLV, seasonally. There are a ton of Orthodox students who study in Israel + film industry types. There is also a ton of traffic to Israel around Passover and the Jewish holidays in the fall. I have an Orthodox cousin in LA who flies to Israel a few times per year, as do many of his friends. It's part of the Orthodox culture, but it's NY and LA that have the critical mass of Orthodox people. Most other American Jewish people will go once or twice in a lifetime if they do not have family in Israel, or they will simply send their kids on a USY or NFTY summer program. These programs usually route the kids to JFK, where they all fly together as a group. My first trip was with USY out of JFK when I was 16, and when I studied at Hebrew University a few years later we all flew as a group from JFK, as well.

 

[phllax]

LAX-TLV is already nicely covered.

LY flies non-stop it 5x weekly, The US flight also originates/terminates in LAX, Until recently CO/UA 90/91 also originated/terminated in LAX.

 

[zethya]

LAX-TLV is already nicely covered.

LY flies non-stop it 5x weekly, The US flight also originates/terminates in LAX, Until recently CO/UA 90/91 also originated/terminated in LAX.

Just for clarification, only the US (and the previous CO/UA) flight Number originates/terminates in LAX, not the actual aircraft. LY has the only LAX-TLV thru flight.