Another US red flag?

[wings396]

combining seniority has nothing to do with pay levels.

But a joint CBA does, and without a combined seniority list there won't be one.
As 700 mentioned, equipment type and/or seat position drive pay rates and as far as I know seniority determines those factors.

 

[robbedagain]

lets see lets just say a AA/US does combine and a captain at US making say 200k a yr is bumped from say a A-330 down to say a A-319 at 172 an hr while the AA pilot goes on to fly the A-330 at 200k.... seniority affects pay the pilots
as other posters mentioned

 

[WorldTraveler]

But a joint CBA does, and without a combined seniority list there won't be one.

thank you for proving that Doug will only offer pay raises as part of a joint CBA and he only has reason to pursue one if he must have a merged US workforce as part of an AA-US merger. He has been quite happy to maintain separate, lower paid workgroups far longer than any other airline has after a merger, whether you factor in the pilot seniority issue or not.

US people are pushing for a merger with AA because that is the only way they are going to be able to get past their post BK pay scales.

 

[737823]

Wrong, seniority determines your pay level.

Not for the ex-TWA FAs thanks to the IAM. Many top the payscale but don't have bidding seniority.

Josh

 

[700UW]

How many times are you going to post false information?

Myself and others have explained to you over and over, the TW situation, it went to arbitration for all work groups and unions involved, ALPA, TWU and the IAM. The IAM spent over $5 million in fighting for the TW represented employees.

A neutral arbitrator ruled on the issue, not the IAM or any other unions.

Stop with the lies all ready.

 

[jimntx]

US people are pushing for a merger with AA because that is the only way they are going to be able to get past their post BK pay scales.

WT, you are, of course, making the wild leap of faith that the US East pilots will accept seniority integration with US West AND AA that does not give them top of the heap seniority. (There are a number of AA pilots that would be more senior than most of the US East pilots.)

Federal law requires that there be binding arbitration when differing unions must merge and can not reach an agreement. US East pilots seem to have the attitude that binding arbitration is only binding if you happen to agree with the arbitrator, and he/she does it the way you want it done.

 

[wings396]

thank you for proving that Doug will only offer pay raises as part of a joint CBA and he only has reason to pursue one if he must have a merged US workforce as part of an AA-US merger. He has been quite happy to maintain separate, lower paid workgroups far longer than any other airline has after a merger, whether you factor in the pilot seniority issue or not.

US people are pushing for a merger with AA because that is the only way they are going to be able to get past their post BK pay scales.

So you're telling me that airline CEO's are able to give wage increases to unionized workers who are under the guidelines of aCBA?
Did your protege Anderson give the Delta pilots all a raise out of the goodness of his heart, or was it done contractually?

 

[700UW]

Actually the company can raise the pay scales but has to do it equally to all, the pay scales are minimums in the CBA. Dont you remember in PHL several years back they raised the starting pay rates as they couldnt attract any quality workers at the first step in the pay scale.

 

[wings396]

I do recall that with PHL, but have never known of any other instance where rates of pay were increased without being contractually required.
And of course the example you referenced with PHL didn't actually pertain to any employees currently on the property working under a CBA.

 

[737823]

How many times are you going to post false information?

Myself and others have explained to you over and over, the TW situation, it went to arbitration for all work groups and unions involved, ALPA, TWU and the IAM. The IAM spent over $5 million in fighting for the TW represented employees.

A neutral arbitrator ruled on the issue, not the IAM or any other unions.

Stop with the lies all ready.

Please indicate exactly what I posted is untrue. Is it not true the ex-TW FAs top the paysacle at AA? Is it not true their bidding seniority date is 4/10/2001?

Josh

 

[nbmcg01]

The IAM did noting for the former TWA f/as. The arbitration was for mechanics and ground workers. AA gave us pay seniority and the APFA President was not happy. That was one of the reasons he gave away furlough pay in 2003..."now they will get what they deserve, nothing". Gotta love the "killer B" mentality. Blame the senior TWA f/as for having been put on a B scale by the senior AA f/as years ago...hummmmmm

 

[737823]

The IAM did noting for the former TWA f/as. The arbitration was for mechanics and ground workers. AA gave us pay seniority and the APFA President was not happy. That was one of the reasons he gave away furlough pay in 2003..."now they will get what they deserve, nothing". Gotta love the "killer B" mentality. Blame the senior TWA f/as for having been put on a B scale by the senior AA f/as years ago...hummmmmm

Thank you for the information. Not sure why some feel the IAM spending $5 million to represent their members is anything out of the ordinary, that's what they should do and have not waived the successorship clause in the agreement.

Josh

 

[PITbull]

A lot of casual observers spout the oft-repeated refrain that "Parker hasn't even combined his two airlines yet" but I doubt that many of them realize the nuances of the situation. Like wings said - not much a CEO can do about a union seniority issue that results when one group forms a new union in the hope that by doing so, they can ignore an arbitration decision with which they disagree (despite having agreed to arbitration).

The original topic starter is posting on this AA Board... and posing the question:

Did anyone do any homework before jumping on the US Airways band wagon? Another US red flag?
Started by Mrs. McFly, Yesterday, 01:14 PM


The poster is hoping that the American Airline unions due their due diligence with regard to a poential merger with US Airways being that the airline has its labor/management issues. The integration issue is just ONE issue going on. There are OTHER issues just to name another...and that is the SECOND FAILED T/A for the f/a groups which are NOT seniority related.

Douggie and boys focus is misguided at best. They are trying to convince the UCC and AA labor groups that the only way forward for them is a merger. His ignoring the problems at US Airways, or thwarting blame on his labor groups to work out is a cop out, taking full advantage of the situation. Now, he is tryng to drag another airline into the mix as if that will fix what ails US Airways. If he can't be a leader and try to fix these issues, he should step down. If he wants a job at American Airline, he should appy. He reminds me of a con artist trying to lure as many more people into a ponzie scheme as quickly as possible before they realize what is really going on.

 

[PITbull]

Wrong, seniority determines your pay level. And the east and west pilots are fighting about it, so it will effect their pay.

Seniority determines what A/C a pilot flies, and with each type and position pay levels are different.

For ground employees seniority determines pay, shift, vacation, etc...

And for these reasons you cite are very crucial issues that American Airline labor groups should stay clear of. The third largest carrier who has experienced a TWA merger which had its seniority issues litigated ......not healthy and the UCC and labor should recognize this taking all the issues into consideration before throwing their support for a merger.

 

[PITbull]

... once again, nothing stops Parker from raising pay for EVERY employee in a group, irrespective of the seniority list of anyone's location on the pay scales. An across the board pay raise affects nothing that is unresolved.

Seniority affects pay. Pay does not affect seniority.

The truth is that Parker is happy to use the conflicts between labor groups to avoid increasing pay... but he hasn't raise pay for other groups where there are no integration issues to be resolved.

Indeed, you are spot on with this analysis.