AMFA

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken, name one time a union asked for and was given a snapback, by a company when facing backruptcy. You can not Ken. This has never been done. And Ken, I truly believe you already knew this but gamble others do not. Another misleading AMFA tidbit gone bad...wanna dicuss FM1?

So a union should never ask for snap backs after emerging from BK just because it was not done before? Nice logic. With your thinking AMFA should have never faced a PEB because the industrial unions never had before. Listen Seguro, it is clear we have a difference in which type of union is better for my profession. I believe in a craft democratic union that fights for my profession and you belive in an industrial socialistic union that fights against my profession.
Just because something has never been done does not mean it can not be accomplished. Just ask Orville and Wilbur Wright and Charles E. Taylor.

 

[Seguro]

No Ken, you listen. By AMFA's history and record I vote no AMFA. The TWU is much more Democratic than AMFA, and an industrial union does not fight against you, maybe in your mind, but shake that kool-aid hangover and touch reality. AMFA is all talk, no action. They have single-handidily caused a trend in our industries outsourcing policies and trends, deny that in a legitimate spin.

We may have our differences but I believe we both seek existence and the ability to continue working.

 

[Superside]

No Ken, you listen. By AMFA's history and record I vote no AMFA. The TWU is much more Democratic than AMFA, and an industrial union does not fight against you, maybe in your mind, but shake that kool-aid hangover and touch reality. AMFA is all talk, no action. They have single-handidily caused a trend in our industries outsourcing policies and trends, deny that in a legitimate spin.

We may have our differences but I believe we both seek existence and the ability to continue working.

You have not read or compared the Constitutions of AMFA and TWU, or you would not have made this statement. "The TWU is much more Democratic than AMFA."
You have absolutely no idea what is going on untill you read them both. Stop listening to the man behind the curtain and use you own mind.

Ingnorance is not Bliss, it's Expensive!

 

[Bob Owens]

Ken, name one time a union asked for and was given a snapback, by a company when facing backruptcy. You can not Ken. This has never been done. And Ken, I truly believe you already knew this but gamble others do not. Another misleading AMFA tidbit gone bad...wanna dicuss FM1?

The fact is than any airline in negotiations is only weeks away from bankruptcy. High fixed costs and slim margins assure that. Back in 97 the company threatened all the employees that if the pilots went on strike that the company would have to liquidate within a month.

The fact is AA did not go bankrupt. Not even C-11 which has become a business tactic to lower costs. They inflated their losses with things like $988 million in Goodwill losses and they now have over $3billion in cash. The pilots are getting back more than double of what are getting back and they didnt have everything else in their contract gutted like we did. Ual mechanics went through BK and they still have more than we do. SWA never took any cuts and even though they were supposedly the "low cost" carrier our labor costs for maint are lower than theirs. If SWA is the Low cost carrier then wouldnt it have been good enough to match their costs? Why did we have to go under their costs?

No matter how you try to spin it, facing BK, in BK, whatever, the fact is that even prior to the latest debacle the TWU has been destroying our profession for over twenty years. This was just the final straw. From B-scale, twelve year progressions, elimination of pushbacks and deicing by mechanics, outsourcing, pre-funding, SRPs, OSMs, "Flexible Starting Rates", "Flex Benifits", system attrition, straight time pay for training off shift, the list goes on. The fact is that over at USAIR and UAL those companies and unions were forced to take drastic actions in order to compete with AA, not SWA. Look at what they sought and got in BK-things that the TWU gave away twenty years ago. They eliminated all the jobs that the TWU has been eliminating over the last twenty years all at once.AA has been leading the industry with concessions for 20 years. We have the lowest ratio of A&P mechanics in the industry, we have a higher percentage of cities unstaffed with mechanics under our contract, we have been the plauge of the industry, all the other mechanics in the industry know it, every now and then they even say it to us.

 

[Your_Ex-Wife]

Let's see Bob...B-scale? TWU asked the membership to turn down/strike issue...membership passed over 80%, airline doubled in mass/employment. OSM's...did that move gain you protectionary clause?

You and other AMFA have but the concessionary contract to really throw your animosity towards. Yet , if it wasn't for the passage of that package MCIE and AFW would be history. The TWU is about saving jobs for the multitude, not wages for the few.

Feel free to copy and post these replies at your locals, I'm sure they're just as proud of AMFA as you, but look up those furloughed without recourse and ask them.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

No Ken, you listen. By AMFA's history and record I vote no AMFA. The TWU is much more Democratic than AMFA, and an industrial union does not fight against you, maybe in your mind, but shake that kool-aid hangover and touch reality. AMFA is all talk, no action. They have single-handidily caused a trend in our industries outsourcing policies and trends, deny that in a legitimate spin.

We may have our differences but I believe we both seek existence and the ability to continue working.

Seguro, explain to me why/how the twu is more democratic than AMFA.
I am touching reality. And the reality is VERY thin. My wallet, SCOPE and benefits are VERY thin.
I will deny that AMFA has caused a trend in our industry's outsourcing policies and trends. AMFA did NOT close the IND or OAK bases. They were closed under the iam. AMFA did not cause SWA to farm out the majority of their heavy maintenance. AMFA is not causing USAir to rush head on into this trend.

We do have our differences however I believe in seeking a better existence and the protected ability to continue working. And that can only be achieved with a craft democratic union that is held accountable to the full membership.

 

[twuer]

No Ken, you listen. By AMFA's history and record I vote no AMFA. The TWU is much more Democratic than AMFA, and an industrial union does not fight against you, maybe in your mind, but shake that kool-aid hangover and touch reality. AMFA is all talk, no action. They have single-handidily caused a trend in our industries outsourcing policies and trends, deny that in a legitimate spin.

We may have our differences but I believe we both seek existence and the ability to continue working.

You have not read or compared the Constitutions of AMFA and TWU, or you would not have made this statement. "The TWU is much more Democratic than AMFA."
You have absolutely no idea what is going on untill you read them both. Stop listening to the man behind the curtain and use you own mind.

Ingnorance is not Bliss, it's Expensive!

Why would we need to read the amfa constitution when we can see for our own eyes the devastaton that amfa has caused and will continue to cause?

The proof is in the puddin'!!

 

[twuer]

duplicate post deleted. . .sorry

 

[Bob Owens]

Let's see Bob...B-scale? TWU asked the membership to turn down/strike issue...membership passed over 80%, airline doubled in mass/employment. OSM's...did that move gain you protectionary clause?

You and other AMFA have but the concessionary contract to really throw your animosity towards. Yet , if it wasn't for the passage of that package MCIE and AFW would be history. The TWU is about saving jobs for the multitude, not wages for the few.

Feel free to copy and post these replies at your locals, I'm sure they're just as proud of AMFA as you, but look up those furloughed without recourse and ask them.

It seems that you have been the victim of TWU revisionist history out there in MCI. Its understandable since there isnt anyone out there to dispute what Little, Gless et al tell you. However here in NY we have plenty of guys who were here at the time and the TWU did not tell them to reject the 1983 contract. Instead they helped foster the culture of fear that they use at every contract ratification. One of the guys who recently retired carried around a clipping that contained a quote from John Kerrigan saying that the mechanics should accept the deal and questioning how much mechanics should think they were worth.

How do you know what would have happened? If the contract was rejected the March 1 2001 seniority date would have remained in place, if they closed the bases what would the do with all of you? They could not have laid you off without another job as long as there was someone out there with a March 1 2001 seniority date. Anybody with four or more basically had system protection as long as there was a March 1, 2001 worker in a 25% station. He was protected and if you had more seniority and they could not lay him off, they could not have laid you off either. When you rolled that date back to 98 you exposed anyone with 12 years or less at MCI to a layoff. By voting in the contract you increased your risk, not lessened it.

The TWU is not about saving jobs for the multitude, they are about saving dues. How many fleet service people hit the street? If they were about saving jobs then why didnt they save the one weeks vacation and give back the company paid Presidents? That would have saved jobs. By decreasing vacation they allowed the company to lay off even more workers without decreasing production.

Actually we have and continue to look up those who were laid off. We get them to sign AMFA cards. So far no one has refused-even your fellow Ex-TWA guys. Our most junior guys understand unionism better than you guys, they all said the same thing-preserve the rate. That has always been the policy of unions. If you have to, take the layoff but preserve the rate. When they come back they will come back to a good paying job. It has always been the company that tries to pressure workers to give up wages in times of hardship. Another thing that unions always fought hard to protect is benifits, this union does the opposite. They negotiate away benifits and then try to make money selling their members policy's to cover what they just negotiated away. Apparently the TWU was having a hard time selling their STD, so what do they do-they negotiate away our 80 day IOD bank, then a few weeks later they start sending us STD literature.The company and the TWU are one and the same.