AMFA

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

The closer you get to filing it seems your tunnel-vision is narrowing. Already blaming TWU for your lack of cards?

Contrary my twu advocate..............We have so many cards because of the twu. You still don't get it. The membership has lost the faith and trust in the twu. You can't fix that. It's time to move on. We will chalk it up to experience. Does that register?? You know, we don't really go a year without a contract??
Here's to the twu.......
We couldn't have come this far without you.........
Cheers.......

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

We didn't work this hard to let it die, but remember you still must be nominated and elected and that is up to the membership


TA you can nominate yourself............what position would you prefer? At MCI, You and I know who will be the front runners, shall I or will you do the honors of anming our local representatives? Nominees

Also, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins? In the 2 years plus we have been employed by AA, this is the second drive that we have been involved with, the first didnt amount to a vote, not enough interested, as will be this time maybe?
While we were TWA, the card drive was stagnant also, IM like you TA, Im in this for the long haul also,if we have to do this over again, than so be it, and if this card drive stutters again, what would AMFA gain by trying to overtake us again?

 

[Bob Owens]

Also, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins? In the 2 years plus we have been employed by AA, this is the second drive that we have been involved with, the first didnt amount to a vote, not enough interested, as will be this time maybe?
While we were TWA, the card drive was stagnant also, IM like you TA, Im in this for the long haul also,if we have to do this over again, than so be it, and if this card drive stutters again, what would AMFA gain by trying to overtake us again?

If you are "in it for the long haul" then why wouldnt you support the concept of belonging to and industry specific focused union?

If you are in it for the long haul then why do you support massive long term concessions as a remedy for a short term problem?

Why would you want to stay with a union that has a twenty year track record of industry leading concessions?

Persistance is the Key to success.

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

Also, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins? In the 2 years plus we have been employed by AA, this is the second drive that we have been involved with, the first didnt amount to a vote, not enough interested, as will be this time maybe?
While we were TWA, the card drive was stagnant also, IM like you TA, Im in this for the long haul also,if we have to do this over again, than so be it, and if this card drive stutters again, what would AMFA gain by trying to overtake us again?

If you are "in it for the long haul" then why wouldnt you support the concept of belonging to and industry specific focused union?

If you are in it for the long haul then why do you support massive long term concessions as a remedy for a short term problem?

Why would you want to stay with a union that has a twenty year track record of industry leading concessions?

Persistance is the Key to success.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins?



Bob, I asked if once we do have an election can We agree not to go thru another card drive if TWU wins?
I am in this for the long haul, but enough is enough, AMFA now is seeming alot like state elections, if once failed KEEP TRYING until they win,
2 years ago there was not enough interested to have an election, nothing has changed, OH, I forgot, concessions happened, Its always somehting to see AMFA step in and RAID, We gave concessions, HERE COMES AMFA promising to do better for us, but no one has proven their point, Oh We hear the propaganda, of ANytime Anyone can oust any officer of AMFA, yet no one has proved that? Has it ever been tried? HAs anyone ever ran against Delle? McCormicks?
Oh and AMFA claims anyone can sit inon contract negotiations...........BS, who will be albe to take time off work to go to the negotiations? and Do you really beleive upper managment will allow a roomful of VISITORS to sit in on meetings?
AMFA does not want political involvement............or affiliation with AFL-CIO,
The TWU supporters here never claimed the leaders of TWU could walk on water, but listen to the AMFA hopefuls talk of Delle, I swear according to them I beleive Delle can walk on water.
Can you bob or any AMFA hopeful guarnatee that AMFA or Delle will never give concessions? NO and if you answer yes, I never call anyone a liar, but your dreaming if you said yes.
I get the feeling the major differnce in TWU and AMFA is.............TWU is more concerned with number of workforce, and AMFA is concerned the present, no matter how many of its members they cause to be reduced or laid off.
Another difference is, AMFA does not care about a complete benefit package or retirement, while TWU does
AMFA does not include the complete workforce of an Airline, only mechanic class, TWU recognizes the whole AIRLINE
When AMFA is in trouble, We will hear all about how the AFL-CIO unions bypassed their need for support, another major concern for staying with TWU, NUMBERS< not just AIRLINE NUMBERS but NUMBERS, of all unions, that will out number any AMFA airline.
All I asked Bob, is to state a request to put an end to this once and for all, if TWU wins

 

[James T. Kirk]

WORLDS LEADING UNION BUSTERS
amfa

 

[Rusty]

Also, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins? In the 2 years plus we have been employed by AA, this is the second drive that we have been involved with, the first didnt amount to a vote, not enough interested, as will be this time maybe?
While we were TWA, the card drive was stagnant also, IM like you TA, Im in this for the long haul also,if we have to do this over again, than so be it, and if this card drive stutters again, what would AMFA gain by trying to overtake us again?

Why would you want to stifle any card drives? Is it not any and all member’s rights to have as many card drives as they please? Why would you advocate taking away their rights??? The IAM has been on a continuous card drive since AMFA won the election at NWA, three years running now. I have heard they had at the best point of their drive almost 250 cards but, they cannot muster over 200 now. I think the IAM advocates have every right to continue their drive from now on, if they so desire because, they have a right to!

After AMFA is in then the TWU advocates will have a right to start a card drive after a given period of time and they should have the right to do so if they so desire!!!

From what I have seen and heard from other AMFA carriers is that once AMFA is in, the rest of the memberships see the real truth and the lights go out on the industrial unions in our Craft and Class.

 

[Seguro]

once AMFA is in, the rest of the memberships see the real truth and the lights go out on the industrial unions in our Craft and Class.

Those lights going out were hangar lights...

 

[twuer]

once AMFA is in, the rest of the memberships see the real truth and the lights go out on the industrial unions in our Craft and Class.

Those lights going out were hangar lights...

. . .and don't forget about the house lights because they didn't have the money to pay their electric bills because THEY HAVE NO JOB!!!!

 

[Superside]

Also, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins? In the 2 years plus we have been employed by AA, this is the second drive that we have been involved with, the first didnt amount to a vote, not enough interested, as will be this time maybe?
While we were TWA, the card drive was stagnant also, IM like you TA, Im in this for the long haul also,if we have to do this over again, than so be it, and if this card drive stutters again, what would AMFA gain by trying to overtake us again?

If you are "in it for the long haul" then why wouldnt you support the concept of belonging to and industry specific focused union?

If you are in it for the long haul then why do you support massive long term concessions as a remedy for a short term problem?

Why would you want to stay with a union that has a twenty year track record of industry leading concessions?

Persistance is the Key to success.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins?



Bob, I asked if once we do have an election can We agree not to go thru another card drive if TWU wins?
I am in this for the long haul, but enough is enough, AMFA now is seeming alot like state elections, if once failed KEEP TRYING until they win,
2 years ago there was not enough interested to have an election, nothing has changed, OH, I forgot, concessions happened, Its always somehting to see AMFA step in and RAID, We gave concessions, HERE COMES AMFA promising to do better for us, but no one has proven their point, Oh We hear the propaganda, of ANytime Anyone can oust any officer of AMFA, yet no one has proved that? Has it ever been tried? HAs anyone ever ran against Delle? McCormicks?
Oh and AMFA claims anyone can sit inon contract negotiations...........BS, who will be albe to take time off work to go to the negotiations? and Do you really beleive upper managment will allow a roomful of VISITORS to sit in on meetings?
AMFA does not want political involvement............or affiliation with AFL-CIO,
The TWU supporters here never claimed the leaders of TWU could walk on water, but listen to the AMFA hopefuls talk of Delle, I swear according to them I beleive Delle can walk on water.
Can you bob or any AMFA hopeful guarnatee that AMFA or Delle will never give concessions? NO and if you answer yes, I never call anyone a liar, but your dreaming if you said yes.
I get the feeling the major differnce in TWU and AMFA is.............TWU is more concerned with number of workforce, and AMFA is concerned the present, no matter how many of its members they cause to be reduced or laid off.
Another difference is, AMFA does not care about a complete benefit package or retirement, while TWU does
AMFA does not include the complete workforce of an Airline, only mechanic class, TWU recognizes the whole AIRLINE
When AMFA is in trouble, We will hear all about how the AFL-CIO unions bypassed their need for support, another major concern for staying with TWU, NUMBERS< not just AIRLINE NUMBERS but NUMBERS, of all unions, that will out number any AMFA airline.
All I asked Bob, is to state a request to put an end to this once and for all, if TWU wins

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins?



Bob, I asked if once we do have an election can We agree not to go thru another card drive if TWU wins?
I am in this for the long haul, but enough is enough, AMFA now is seeming alot like state elections, if once failed KEEP TRYING until they win,

AND IF AMFA WINS YOU AGREE NOT TO HAVE A CARD DRIVE TO GET TWU REPRESENTATION BACK, OK?

2 years ago there was not enough interested to have an election, nothing has changed, OH, I forgot, concessions happened, Its always somehting to see AMFA step in and RAID, We gave concessions, HERE COMES AMFA promising to do better for us, but no one has proven their point, Oh We hear the propaganda, of ANytime Anyone can oust any officer of AMFA, yet no one has proved that? Has it ever been tried? HAs anyone ever ran against Delle? McCormicks?

AMFA MAKES NO PROMISES, FOR YOU TO SAY SO IS LESS THAN HONOST!
YES, THEIR HAVE BEEN AND ARE GOING TO BE NOMINATIONS FOR THE TOP JOB AT AMFA.
AGAIN, THE McCORMICK GROUP ARE NOT ELECTED, THEY ARE UNDER CONTRACT TO AMFA. THE ONLY VOTE WOULD BE TO END THE AGREEMENT WITH THEM, SO FAR THEY HAVE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB ADDVISING THE AMFA.

Oh and AMFA claims anyone can sit inon contract negotiations...........BS, who will be albe to take time off work to go to the negotiations? and Do you really beleive upper managment will allow a roomful of VISITORS to sit in on meetings?
AMFA does not want political involvement............or affiliation with AFL-CIO,

MY OPPINION, BUT WHY WOULD AMFA WANT TO BE AFFILIATED WITH AFL-CIO? I OF COURSE, WILL BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU UNDER AMFA.

The TWU supporters here never claimed the leaders of TWU could walk on water, but listen to the AMFA hopefuls talk of Delle, I swear according to them I beleive Delle can walk on water.
Can you bob or any AMFA hopeful guarnatee that AMFA or Delle will never give concessions?

AMFA HAS NEVER NEGOTIATED CONCESSIONS.

NO and if you answer yes, I never call anyone a liar, but your dreaming if you said yes.
I get the feeling the major differnce in TWU and AMFA is.............TWU is more concerned with number of workforce, and AMFA is concerned the present, no matter how many of its members they cause to be reduced or laid off.
Another difference is, AMFA does not care about a complete benefit package or retirement, while TWU does

AT UAL THE AMFA HAS STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE, THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THE RETIREES BENEFITS. THE LETTER FROM AMFA WAS POSTED ON THIS FORUM.

AMFA does not include the complete workforce of an Airline, only mechanic class, TWU recognizes the whole AIRLINE.

CRAFT AND CLASS, TITLE 1, TITLE2 TITLE 4, SIM TECHS AND TECH SERVICES, THIS IS THE RULING OF THE NMB. NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

When AMFA is in trouble, We will hear all about how the AFL-CIO unions bypassed their need for support, another major concern for staying with TWU, NUMBERS< not just AIRLINE NUMBERS but NUMBERS, of all unions, that will out number any AMFA airline.
AMFA HAS BACKED OTHER UNION, AND IT IS IN THE CONSTITUTION NOT TO CROSS ANY PICKET LINE. THEY SHOULD GET THE SAME BACKING FROM NO AFFILIATED UNIONS AS WELL.
ONLY THE FUTURE WILL TELL.
All I asked Bob, is to state a request to put an end to this once and for all, if TWU wins.

BECAUSE: IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED TRY TRY AGAIN.

 

[Rusty]

once AMFA is in, the rest of the memberships see the real truth and the lights go out on the industrial unions in our Craft and Class.

Those lights going out were hangar lights...

. . .and don't forget about the house lights because they didn't have the money to pay their electric bills because THEY HAVE NO JOB!!!!

Don't forget the TWU union hall!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Also, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins? In the 2 years plus we have been employed by AA, this is the second drive that we have been involved with, the first didnt amount to a vote, not enough interested, as will be this time maybe?
While we were TWA, the card drive was stagnant also, IM like you TA, Im in this for the long haul also,if we have to do this over again, than so be it, and if this card drive stutters again, what would AMFA gain by trying to overtake us again?

If you are "in it for the long haul" then why wouldnt you support the concept of belonging to and industry specific focused union?

If you are in it for the long haul then why do you support massive long term concessions as a remedy for a short term problem?

Why would you want to stay with a union that has a twenty year track record of industry leading concessions?

Persistance is the Key to success.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, once this card drive is over, and the sooner the better, why cant we all draw a resolution, agreement, that no more AMFA card drives at AA if TWU wins?



Bob, I asked if once we do have an election can We agree not to go thru another card drive if TWU wins?
I am in this for the long haul, but enough is enough, AMFA now is seeming alot like state elections, if once failed KEEP TRYING until they win,
2 years ago there was not enough interested to have an election, nothing has changed, OH, I forgot, concessions happened, Its always somehting to see AMFA step in and RAID, We gave concessions, HERE COMES AMFA promising to do better for us, but no one has proven their point, Oh We hear the propaganda, of ANytime Anyone can oust any officer of AMFA, yet no one has proved that? Has it ever been tried? HAs anyone ever ran against Delle? McCormicks?
Oh and AMFA claims anyone can sit inon contract negotiations...........BS, who will be albe to take time off work to go to the negotiations? and Do you really beleive upper managment will allow a roomful of VISITORS to sit in on meetings?
AMFA does not want political involvement............or affiliation with AFL-CIO,
The TWU supporters here never claimed the leaders of TWU could walk on water, but listen to the AMFA hopefuls talk of Delle, I swear according to them I beleive Delle can walk on water.
Can you bob or any AMFA hopeful guarnatee that AMFA or Delle will never give concessions? NO and if you answer yes, I never call anyone a liar, but your dreaming if you said yes.
I get the feeling the major differnce in TWU and AMFA is.............TWU is more concerned with number of workforce, and AMFA is concerned the present, no matter how many of its members they cause to be reduced or laid off.
Another difference is, AMFA does not care about a complete benefit package or retirement, while TWU does
AMFA does not include the complete workforce of an Airline, only mechanic class, TWU recognizes the whole AIRLINE
When AMFA is in trouble, We will hear all about how the AFL-CIO unions bypassed their need for support, another major concern for staying with TWU, NUMBERS< not just AIRLINE NUMBERS but NUMBERS, of all unions, that will out number any AMFA airline.
All I asked Bob, is to state a request to put an end to this once and for all, if TWU wins

mci, you mention that AMFA drives start at AA when the twu gives concessions. Why does the twu give concessions? And without snap backs?
You ask for proof about AMFA officials being ousted? If you had attended the Tulsa debate that Sonny and Jim missed on Jan. 17th you would have heard straight from AMFA that two officials, Local Presidents I believe, were indeed removed by RECALL of the membership. Not the international. They were "ousted" because they were doing a poor job and AMFA is structured so the membership's wishes are heard. Go ahead and ask Dell. He will answer you. It should also be on the video of the meeting at the Brady.
As for sitting in on contract negotiations this question was also answered at the Brady. You can also call a AMFA Local and ask how this is done. As for taking off the time to sit in on these negotiations if you are a twu represented AMT it will indeed be hard to take a day off since our wages have been lowered. Now if you are an AMFA represented AMT taking a day off should not be so hard. You do have the ability to CS with another AMT. Unless you are management.
Lastly, as for AMFA not being in the afl-cio you can again e-mail Dell and ask that question. He will answer it.

 

[Oldweirdharold]

WOW!!! You amfa followers are picking up some numbers here on these boards. Dave must have rallied the troops over at Mazzios. Did he ask you to come on usaviation and post to make it look like you were gaining momentum????? HAHAHAHA!!!!! Where were you just a few months ago??? HMMMMM????

Another act of desparation.

Thats ''desperation '' Jr. Actually I became interested in AMFA after I saw what happened with the 1989 contract and concessions we gave then, I voted NO.
I did vote yes for the contract extension on 93, about that same time NWA took a concession remember that???

Then came 1995 and we got the big shaft .. I don't need to recap all the ground we lost there do I ??

Fast forward to 1998 and AMFA began again at AA.. What a struggle do you remember the Ratfest twu and Dave Kruse put on then?? Although I did not participate I heard an audio tape of twu members asking Mr. Kruse what AA. planned to do about mechanics wearing AMFA shirts, also Mr. Burchette referring to '' Brother Kruse''...

Undaunted a few mechanics continued to wear the shirts and dared to pass out AMFA literature on AA property... Saddly it took court action to decide that men had the right to wear these shirts and pass out information giving people a choice of representation.. Federal laws were upheld and democracy prevailed as AMFA gained ground..

Twu responded slowly at first trying to punish members and deny them their rights in an effort to make an example out of these few so called trouble makers, but in doing so only made themselves look bad.. Then the lies and distortions began which can be fully documented...

Do you remember the threats given to the Owasso High school principal which using caller ID were traced to twu on pine St. following a planned debate between twu and AMFA ?? Do you remember the cancellation notices that went up a the last minute at the debate at the Brady??? What kind of men hide and operate in this manner afraid to reveal their identities, unable to defend their cowardly actions??

I want whats best for the Mechanic and related at AA and I believe if we can unite all mechanics in same union it would be in our best interests long term..
TWU,IBT,Teamsters will never go for this, its been suggested but as you see we are all divided to date..

I wish I knew who you were, perhaps we could explore this further.. Will you be bold enough to reveal your real name to the posts you leave here.. Proud twu?? leave your name and show some of that pride my friend..

Jim Anderson Tulsa Dock 4D

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

.

mci, you mention that AMFA drives start at AA when the twu gives concessions. Why does the twu give concessions? And without snap backs


Ken, Actually I beleive the drive started at AA during the INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT the TWU secured for the membership, Maybe the drive started sooner? ? I do know that when talks started of acquiring TWA, AMFA was unsuccessfully attempting a takeover?
Ken, The TWU negotiated contracts, the MEMBERSHIP voted to accept, Majority wins
2 officers were ousted? from 2 separate locals? who votes? only those at the local effected? or everyone?

Attending negotiations...........everyone can attend, if they can afford to right? CS? oh, if they only want to sit on 1 day of meetings instead of whole negotiations? I dont find this beneficial to membership

 

[Oldweirdharold]

Actually I beleive the drive started at AA during the INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT the TWU secured for the membership, Maybe the drive started sooner? ? I do know that when talks started of acquiring TWA, AMFA was unsuccessfully attempting a takeover?
Ken, The TWU negotiated contracts, the MEMBERSHIP voted to accept, Majority wins
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I answered this question in my earlier post and gave you a factual time line for AMFA @ AA since 1989... What part of this do you not understand??? The only thing I did not elaborate upon was the disasterous contract of 1995 and the negotiations which kept us all in the dark until after the fact, including the SRP program..

After the so-called vote a re-count was demanded again by the membership but guess what the votes had all been lost and or destroyed.. This in itself is a violation of Federal law but nobody was held responsible, in fact the then President went on to an TWU International appointment ..

Next election all E-board as well as Pres and V.P. were replaced with promises of sweeping ''change from within'' to address the needs of the membership.. As history shows this too was a sham, nothing ever changes how could it???

Those of us that had NWA Tentative agreement to read could see TWU simply aped it line for line even down to numbering each sentence, then added a penny or two and took credit ...... B.S. I still have it to compare to the diminished POS thing we now work under..

15 years of watching the cycle repeat with promises of doing better next time .
Question is just how many times will you let a group get over on you before you wake up and realize whats happening???

Jim A. 4D Tulsa

 

[Seguro]

Ken, name one time a union asked for and was given a snapback, by a company when facing backruptcy. You can not Ken. This has never been done. And Ken, I truly believe you already knew this but gamble others do not. Another misleading AMFA tidbit gone bad...wanna dicuss FM1?