Amfa Allows Outsourcing To Continue

[Bob Owens]

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansasci...12/daily42.html

Looks like AA is moving parts out of MCI. As long as I've been in this industry parts always led the work. When you started to see parts go away the work soon followed.

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob, you call TWU a company union? Let's see...I can get AMFA to outsource heavy checks to Singapore and show a 45% job loss , OR I can show a 1% DECREASE in outsourcing at AA with TWU. Bob, get with a group of your picking, put your heads together, and cypher which union the company would rather see in negotiations. AMFA is the association of choice by the companies in aviation, hands down.

 

[TWU informer]

Steve,

You seem to be a bigshot spokesperson for MCI, or at least in your own mind you are. However, I was thinking recently, you and your type of unionism damn near or in fact did, destroy TWA to the point that AA bought it for pennies on the dollar and saved you from a permanent restart. And if I am not mistaken, you were the proud product of concessions for jobs handed out by the IAM.

Given your loud mouth, and apparent leadership of the work force, and the end result of that leadership. Why should we believe or follow you anywhere?

Seems to me, you and the industrial unions already killed TWA once, why should we take your advice and kill it again while we are now attached by the umbilical cord?

 

[Buck]

It is a good thing that the work being "Farmed Out" from MCI is not OSM work. Then it would be considered outsourcing.

 

[Steve Connell]

I'm sorry dave, did I miss you calling me a loud mouth when we were face to face? That's what I thought little man. You call me a spokesman for MCI. I am a spokeman for my kids man, not MCI. Why not come up here and ask to address the spokesman? That's what I thought little man. And little man, next time we meet I will greet you as just that, a little man, and please be alert, you never know when I'll say hi. You're a real piece of work you dweeb. What do you have besides your air-mechanic.com and a waffle?

Buck, we are going to attempt to bring all bases and outposts together as one TWU where the company is concerned. Please standby. We need to stop the Co. from pitting us against each other, solidarity scares them. This can happen.

 

[Birdman]

Steve, none of us need the hostility in your tone of finger. Dave does not need me or anyone to speak for him but I will anyway. He has NEVER in the almost 5 years I've known him come off as a "tough guy" physically but I assure you he can hold his own in ANY debate. ANYONE you talk to who has gone toe to toe will admit it if their honest. Lose the hostility. We're family men to. Besides, its against compAAny policy.

 

[Buck]

I'm sorry dave, did I miss you calling me a loud mouth when we were face to face? That's what I thought little man. You call me a spokesman for MCI. I am a spokeman for my kids man, not MCI. Why not come up here and ask to address the spokesman? That's what I thought little man. And little man, next time we meet I will greet you as just that, a little man, and please be alert, you never know when I'll say hi. You're a real piece of work you dweeb. What do you have besides your air-mechanic.com and a waffle?

Buck, we are going to attempt to bring all bases and outposts together as one TWU where the company is concerned. Please standby. We need to stop the Co. from pitting us against each other, solidarity scares them. This can happen.

Buck, we are going to attempt to bring all bases and outposts together as one TWU where the company is concerned. Please standby. We need to stop the Co. from pitting us against each other, solidarity scares them. This can happen.

Steve it is to late for this theory to come about. TWU Local 514 and the International/ATD have pitted the bases against the way to long. I believe the line is done. The line is almost all AMFA.

 

[twuer]

Steve, none of us need the hostility in your tone of finger. Dave does not need me or anyone to speak for him but I will anyway. He has NEVER in the almost 5 years I've known him come off as a "tough guy" physically but I assure you he can hold his own in ANY debate. ANYONE you talk to who has gone toe to toe will admit it if their honest. Lose the hostility. We're family men to. Besides, its against compAAny policy.

I appreciate your coming to the defense of a union brother but Dave has it coming to him. He has been handing it out for many months now.

And about your comment. . .
he can hold his own in ANY debate. ANYONE you talk to who has gone toe to toe will admit it if their honest.

Well, he had his chance now didn't he. He folded like a really bad hand in a poker game Birdman. He is suppose to be, what, your co-chairman for AMFA? More than qualified to debate wouldn't you say?? He wouldn't or should I say couldn't do it. I have no respect for a man who does the things or says things, personal things, that Dave Stewart has done to other union members. Fighting for what you believe in is one thing, attacking to prove your point (at any cost) is a whole different story.

 

[Steve Connell]

Birdman, you're correct. After reading my post I do detect just a hint of hostility. Fact being Birdman, we all need to keep to the facts here and LEAVE personal attacks out of the agenda. AMFA organizers have posted direct links to Kirk's court records, phoned his ex-wife to find mud to sling [at 2am], and called him a Nazi. I ask Dave to be careful what he posts beyond union facts and I get schooled? Fair enough.

Here's an open apology to all AMFA organizers and supporters. I am man enough to cease with the insults and accusations if you are. We, the TWU members, have NEVER, attacked your family as you have ours but it's time gents to carry on as adults. I'm old school, and it shows I guess at times. You have my word I will not initiate from this point on, unless provoked. let's see if you can live by the same rules of engagement.

There are no doubt good men and women on both sides of these issues, let's not judge over the t-shirt we wear.

Again , I apologize.

 

[TonyB]

Some tough guy you are Steve! What happened? Did Little pass the word to his useful idiots to tone it down? Don't bother, your cause is lost and you know it.
I guess "OLD SCHOOL" in MCI is not the same as old school when I was growing up in The Big Apple. Our old school's motto was "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. You on the other hand run to management or to the cops. A REAL TEAAM TWU TOUGH GUY!

Here's an issue for you. Article 1 Recognition and Scope of our piece of garbage contract has the following sentence: "It is understood that nothing in this article requires the maintenance of the present volume of work"
What does it mean? Explain away, STONE COLD STEVE CONNELL!


TWU, OUT THE DOOR IN '04

 

[Checking it Out]

Tony what is the current volume of work at AA? (hint less than 20%)

Tony what is the current volume of work at NW? (hint has increased 3 fold since amfa has taken over)

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the AA/TWU agreement?

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the NW/AMFA agreement?

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the United/AMFA agreement?

On and on and on and on -----------------------------------?????????

 

[Bob Owens]

Tony what is the current volume of work at AA? (hint less than 20%)

Tony what is the current volume of work at NW? (hint has increased 3 fold since amfa has taken over)

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the AA/TWU agreement?

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the NW/AMFA agreement?

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the United/AMFA agreement?

On and on and on and on -----------------------------------?????????

How is work that has been transferred out of maint calculated? Is it counted as outsourced? No. Is it work that to us is lost? Yes. How about the OSMs? How many of them would rather be paid as mechanics? Are those jobs,that used to be mechanics jobs on the mechanics scale considered outsourced? No. They are still however "lost" jobs. NWA and UAL are already calling back guys, however the jobs that the TWU has been losing are gone forever.

 

[Bob Owens]

Tony what is the current volume of work at AA? (hint less than 20%)

Tony what is the current volume of work at NW? (hint has increased 3 fold since amfa has taken over)

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the AA/TWU agreement?

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the NW/AMFA agreement?

How many lines for heavy maintenance is currently performed outside the United/AMFA agreement?

On and on and on and on -----------------------------------?????????

How is work that has been transferred out of maint calculated? Is it counted as outsourced? No.
Is it work that to us is lost? Yes.

How about all the AA mechanics and the work they do in other countries? Is that considered "outsourced"?

How about the OSMs? How many of them would rather be paid as mechanics? Are those jobs,that used to be mechanics jobs on the mechanics scale considered outsourced? No. They are still however "lost" jobs.

NWA and UAL are already calling back guys, however the jobs that the TWU has been losing are gone forever. Twenty years ago we lost push-backs. We never got it back.

 

[Checking it Out]

Received: 01/19/04 2233 EST
Name: Bill Schneider
E-Mail:
Employer: NWA
Location: IAH
Message:
It seems that this board has been bombarded with the old anti-AMFA arguments. This is exactly what happened when we were confronted with another IAMAW concessionary tentative agreement. We voted that T/A down. The AMFA grass roots drive then seemed to take hold.

The AMFA is no panacea. Just because you vote in the AMFA does not mean you can sit on your butt and expect miracles to happen. This is a democratic union. Get involved, be active, and most of all, be professional.

As Aircraft Maintenance Technicians the only way we will further our profession is to be the professionals we are. We must not portray the image of the industrial union thug. If we are to be treated as professionals, we must act as such. At NWA we have fostered a new image for the Technician and Related.

NWA has used every possible method to reduce our headcount. They will continue to reduce the rank and file employees who refuse to pull their own weight. They have violated the agreement at times and when they have the AMFA has had those violations overturned via arbitration.

Northwest Airlines will continue to try to shed the in house work that can be done by third party outfits. If NWA can have a seat overhauled by a contractor who pays their workers $12.00/hr, why would they keep that work in house? I believe NWA is following the Continental Airlines model. I can’t fault NWA for doing this. The executives are focusing on reducing costs. They feel that this is the best way to reduce maintenance costs. I disagree. I am not in the position to change the way NWA does business. The TWU and their OSM classification have prevented those jobs from ever being performed by AMT's again.

NWA has focused on the Airline customer. Aircraft maintenance is a cost center. Richard Anderson (NWA’s CEO) has said that we are in the Airline business, not the aircraft maintenance business. NWA wants to have only Line Maintenance and light check work done in house. As long as there is third party contractors to perform the heavy check work with unlicensed mechanics, all airlines will utilize the low wage option. As it stands, contractors for half the cost are doing most back shop work by utilizing unlicensed techs under a repair station license.
As professional AMT's we must unite and aim for a common goal. Certificated technicians must perform any and all maintenance done on aircraft and the parts attached to them. This will never happen under the catchall industrial unions such as the TWU/IAMAW. They want to keep the most dues dollars flowing. If that means creating b-scale, c-scale…. that will be the goal. The industrial unions would much rather have 2000 AMT’s and 4000 OSM’s than to have 4000 professional well paid AMT’s. That is because they need the strength in numbers for their finances. The greater the number, the more dues flow. -------

compliments of the-mechanic

The more you look the more you can see amfa's philosophy, let farmouts continue until all heavy maintenance is gone. Sounds like amfa is allowing all this to happen with no fight. Word has it that amfa feels the arbitration case has no merit and will cost the effected mechanic's millions of dollars.

 

[Birdman]

CIO, great post untill right up to the last paragraph when you interjected. AMFA ALLOWS??? Again, since when is going to arbitration ALLOWING????

TonyB, I'm the one that requested civility. Since this is the only debate medium that we can all agree on we should ALL be LESS HOSTILE and more respectful of the others opinion (unless your kidding of coarse).

twuer, I stand by my post. Dave agreed with the majority not to bother responding to an unsigned letter addressed to Delle.