American Invests in Its Future

[Hopeful]

Must.... grind..... axe.......

Yes. You have no problem continually defending corporate greed and bashing unions..so, yes, I will keep grinding my axe...If you don't want to read my axe grinding, take your executive platinum card and go THE GOOD OL BOYS NETWORK OF CORPORATE GREED forum.

 

[Bob Owens]

Getting back to the new planes they have money for, who is going to fix them?

The Average age in Local 562 is over 45, so that means that most of these mechanics will be gone before these airplanes are ready to be retired.

In 2007 only 1500 new A&Ps were created. Thats for the entire industry, Airline, Air Cargo, MRO, Business Aviation, Manufacturing, and General Aviation.

Airlines tend to need mechanics in high cost areas and offer the harshest working conditions (weekends, holidays, night shift). They will probably not enjoy the ability to raid General Aviation, manufacturing and MROs like they used to. Most who are there wont leave because the airlines arent offering much. Starting pay, $14 and hour, is about the same as it was in 1983. Combine the low pay with working nights , holidays, weekends, job insecurity, the decline of pensions and health benifits offered,increased FAA scrutiny and the surge in FAA LOIs and fines issued directly to mechanics and the airlines are no longer the place for A&Ps to go.

The airlines have successfully driven people with the skillsets needed to maintain aircraft from the industry, within the next few years, sooner if there is an economic recovery, the industry will be running out of mechanics.

In 2007 the FAA only issued 1500 new A&Ps, over the last 5 years half of the FAR 147 schools in the country have dissappeared, that means the numbers will likely drop for 2008 and beyond. In the meantime people continue to grow older, some die, some retire, some simply just quit and there aint nobody there to replace them.

Who will be fixing these things?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

In 2007 the FAA only issued 1500 new A&Ps, over the last 5 years half of the FAR 147 schools in the country have dissappeared, that means the numbers will likely drop for 2008 and beyond. In the meantime people continue to grow older, some die, some retire, some simply just quit and there aint nobody there to replace them.

Who will be fixing these things?

Unlicensed, untrained workers. Overseas MROs, etc.

.

 

[The Goose]

Getting back to the new planes they have money for, who is going to fix them?

The Average age in Local 562 is over 45, so that means that most of these mechanics will be gone before these airplanes are ready to be retired.

In 2007 only 1500 new A&Ps were created. Thats for the entire industry, Airline, Air Cargo, MRO, Business Aviation, Manufacturing, and General Aviation.

Airlines tend to need mechanics in high cost areas and offer the harshest working conditions (weekends, holidays, night shift). They will probably not enjoy the ability to raid General Aviation, manufacturing and MROs like they used to. Most who are there wont leave because the airlines arent offering much. Starting pay, $14 and hour, is about the same as it was in 1983. Combine the low pay with working nights , holidays, weekends, job insecurity, the decline of pensions and health benifits offered,increased FAA scrutiny and the surge in FAA LOIs and fines issued directly to mechanics and the airlines are no longer the place for A&Ps to go.

The airlines have successfully driven people with the skillsets needed to maintain aircraft from the industry, within the next few years, sooner if there is an economic recovery, the industry will be running out of mechanics.

In 2007 the FAA only issued 1500 new A&Ps, over the last 5 years half of the FAR 147 schools in the country have dissappeared, that means the numbers will likely drop for 2008 and beyond. In the meantime people continue to grow older, some die, some retire, some simply just quit and there aint nobody there to replace them.

Who will be fixing these things?

Bob:

Like Mr. Wrench said, the lack of "able" personnel will drive the switch to the unlicensed mech or send the work out of country. The airlines don't want qualified people - they want bodies that can fill out paperwork correctly. The only "qualified" people desired are those with an MBA and the ability to suck-start a Harley-Davidson.

The business plan, I believe, has everything to do with "replacement" - that of domestic mechanics. The FAA has turned into a paper tiger in that all they concern themselves with is paper and couldn't care less about the work actually being done on the aircraft.

Sure - their inspectors took a ruler and wrote up string-ties for being a sixteenth of an inch off the called-for nominal measurement - so what? That's really insuring safety, isn't it? That's more like picking up more money for the operating budget via fines.

As long as enough maintenance exists in the USA to inspect, fine, and otherwise justify the FAA's existence, there will be no concern on their part when the airlines are sending the planes to Tijuana or farther south to be wrenched on.

 

[Mach85ER]

I am not trying to stat anything, I am just wondering. How many mechanics or pilots have been personally sued or had to fight criminal charges involving an aircraft accident?

FM

Rumour was the estates of the pilots were sued after the Cali crash. AA has to defend them, but years of litigation could create problems I'd guess. Try telling a widow she has to go to the court to try to sell a house. not really sure how it works though.

AA, in one of it's finest moments, personally sued the FAA Tower Controller (not just the FAA) in the LIT accident.

Criminal proceedings can be a problem outside the country and are often the first move. If something happens in Brazil, the pilots are likely to be criminally charged. Look at the example of the GOL crash, where the bizjet pilots were charged despite the "joke" of the ATC system (I've flown that same route)

Two pilots were also sentenced to jail in an Italian crash a couple of days ago.

The "jail" mentality has also been creeping into the USA recently. Local grandstanding prosecuters and law enforcement seem to be sticking their noses into what has been an improving aviation safety culture over the years, and traditionally handled by the Feds. If an airline guy crashes and kills, and is found drunk, throw away the cell key. If they start jailing for mistakes. Aviation safety will go into the "Dark Ages"

 

[eolesen]

Rumour was the estates of the pilots were sued after the Cali crash. AA has to defend them, but years of litigation could create problems I'd guess. Try telling a widow she has to go to the court to try to sell a house. not really sure how it works though.

IIRC, those are civil and not criminal, and I doubt they'll stick based on the facts of the respective investigations.

Remember than anyone with standing and money to pay the filing fee can file a civil lawsuit, since they don't have the burden of actually arguing for an indictment like you have in the criminal courts.

The "jail" mentality has also been creeping into the USA recently. Local grandstanding prosecuters and law enforcement seem to be sticking their noses into what has been an improving aviation safety culture over the years, and traditionally handled by the Feds.

You can thank the main scream media for that. They let people like Mary Schiavo and the off-her-meds AA flight attendant act as though they're experts on aviation safety, and the local prosecutors, etc. don't know any different, so that's what they go with.


Bob's concerned that only 1500 new A&P's were issued last year... How many A&P's were issued in the previous 10-15 years, and how many of those guys are under 40 but working outside the industry right now due to furloughs, business failures, etc?....

 

[777 fixer]

Unlicensed, untrained workers. Overseas MROs, etc.

.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/United-Airl...-422/1509601/L/

 

[eolesen]

http://www.airliners.net/photo/United-Airl...-422/1509601/L/

Interesting... in the photo, the job board is in English. Do they have that many English speaking AMT's in Korea?...

When I was in BOG last year, there were a bunch of U.S. AMT's working down there.

I know pilots do this, so it's only any idea how many other U.S. AMT's followed the airplanes to the overseas MRO's?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Bob:

the lack of "able" personnel will drive the switch to the unlicensed mech or send the work out of country.

I don't think it will drive the switch, but will be used as a justification.

Follow the Money.

.

 

[Hopeful]

Interesting... in the photo, the job board is in English. Do they have that many English speaking AMT's in Korea?...

When I was in BOG last year, there were a bunch of U.S. AMT's working down there.

I know pilots do this, so it's only any idea how many other U.S. AMT's followed the airplanes to the overseas MRO's?

To work for PESOS?


This is the thinking of the high and might folks like eolesen who feels everything should be outsourced so their stocks can go up.

Hey Eric, what do you think about outsourcing executives to Korea or some third world country?

 

[BoeingBoy]

IIRC, those are civil and not criminal, and I doubt they'll stick based on the facts of the respective investigations.

Eric,

There have been several criminal investigations started after aircraft accidents.

- As mentioned, law enforcement opened a criminal investigation after the Legacy/Gol accident and threatened manslaughter charges.

- The French Supreme Court rejected requests to dismiss criminal charges resulting from the Concord accident.

- Several people faced manslaughter charges resulting from the Air Inter accident in 1992 - 14 years after the accident. Included were people from Airbus, the airline, the French director General of civil aviation at the time of the accident, various controllers and civil servants.

- 8 Swiss air traffic controllers were charged with negligent homicide after the DHL/TU-174 midair.

- Swiss prosecutor investigated charges of negligent homocide after the Crossair acccident in 2001.

- An Italian court in 2006 upheld convictions for manslaughter of several people after the SAS/Cessna Bizjet collision on the runway at Milan.

There are other recent cases, but you get the idea. What I see bothersome is that criminal investigations are becoming more frequent (in the context of relatively few accidents each year) following accidents outside the U.S. In some cases it almost seems like the prosecutors are in a race with civil accident investigators, hoping to get a criminal conviction before the cause is determined.

Jim

 

[777 fixer]

Interesting... in the photo, the job board is in English. Do they have that many English speaking AMT's in Korea?...

When I was in BOG last year, there were a bunch of U.S. AMT's working down there.

I know pilots do this, so it's only any idea how many other U.S. AMT's followed the airplanes to the overseas MRO's?

Since aircraft maintenance manuals are in English I would say all of them at least speak English.