American CFO Horton talks labor issues

[TWU informer]

American CFO Horton talks labor issues

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Speaking at the J.P. Morgan Aviation, Transportation & Defense Conference, Horton said

"We have three major work groups, the pilots, the flight attendants and the Transport Workers Union who represent our mechanics and our fleet services people among others. Each of those is in various stages but each of those are in mediation which is normal in the labor negotiation process. Mediation takes a long time. If you look back at the history of labor agreements in the industry, it takes two to three years to get a contract. We have been at this since 2008. The contracts all became amendable in May of '08 and so they are in various stages."

Of course when seeking Billions in concessions, negotiations must be completed within weeks without mediation.

I believe the history of negotiations at AA have not entered mediation on most contracts. Neither the APA, APFA, or the TWU has entered mediation on a regular basis that would result in the CFO having facts that back up the claim that mediation is NORMAL.

How long did AA/Labor negotiations take when you were seeking $1.8 BILLION in concessions in 2003?

 

[Bob Owens]

American CFO Horton talks labor issues

Link To Story



Of course when seeking Billions in concessions, negotiations must be completed within weeks without mediation.

I believe the history of negotiations at AA have not entered mediation on most contracts. Neither the APA, APFA, or the TWU has entered mediation on a regular basis that would result in the CFO having facts that back up the claim that mediation is NORMAL.

How long did AA/Labor negotiations take when you were seeking $1.8 BILLION in concessions in 2003?

In my 25 years I dont recall ANY contract that we've had take this long.

 

[TWU informer]

In my 25 years I dont recall ANY contract that we've had take this long.

I do remember being in mediation in 1989 when we took it in the shorts on health care called "Flex Benefits" that the TWU later called "Improved Medical Benefits" but I cannot remember how long that negotiations took in total.

Since I've been employed AA/TWU have had negotiations in 1985, 1987, 1989, 1993, 1995, 2001, 2003, and only one of those went to mediation.

What I cannot figure out is how they think they benefit from making such stupid public statements that insult our intelligence knowing we will be reading.

 

[eolesen]

You guys need to get out of your cages more often.....

Dave, your comment that the APA and APFA didn't go to mediation is ignorant of the facts.

APA contract amenable in August 1994, mediation, strike in February 1997, arbitration & PEB, ratified April 1997. Two and a half years to get a contract.

APFA contract amenable in December 1992, mediation, strike in November 1993, arbitration completed in October 1995. Just shy of three years to get a contract.

APFA contract amenable in November 1998, ratified September 2001. Just shy of three years.

Won't bother with the TWU. You're of the opinion they're lapdogs and just take what management offers, but I'll bet it's probably not too far off from being between two and three years....

Here's the BLS's view prior to 2003:

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2003/07/art3full.pdf

Since then, it's hard to say what the average is, since bankruptcy stepped into the process for so many carriers...

 

[MERV]

Lets see how long the company negotiate before unions call for a strike. Seem that unions are not to happy with AA Sr management.

American Airlines, pilots 'far apart' on contract
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/03/09/...?partner=alerts

 

[TWU informer]

Straight from the link eolesen posted...

To date, there has been no systematic
analysis of the actual length of time required to
reach agreements in airline labor negotiations and
only limited published information on how airline
labor disputes are actually resolved.

Also pointed out is a 1.3 year average NOT 2-3 years as Horton claims.

I will admit that the APA and APFA have been through more mediation than the TWU and that was an error on my part. My views are indeed influenced by the docile TWU.

Bottom line is having 3 work groups in mediation at the same time, with the current length is NOT normal by any standards.

How much do you get paid to insure we are corrected on these boards "E". Is that a function of your "new" job? I only ask because depending on the cost you do a good job and wonder if it is worth it to whoever gets the invoice.

 

[FWAAA]

At other airlines, negotiations can take more than three years; WN pilots ratified a new agreement in November 2009 that became amendable in August, 2006.

 

[Hopeful]

At other airlines, negotiations can take more than three years; WN pilots ratified a new agreement in November 2009 that became amendable in August, 2006.

Taking a cue from TWU Informer's post, our industry leading force fed concessionary contract only took weeks. When it benefits the company, they move like their pants are on fire.....

 

[FWAAA]

That's what happens when you have very little bargaining power. The RLA, your worthless union and those big mean executives have consipired to keep you down.

 

[TWU informer]

That's what happens when you have very little bargaining power. The RLA, your worthless union and those big mean executives have consipired to keep you down.

And how much is your monthly invoice to the master in exchange for your views on this board?

 

[toroshark]

Here is hoping that the NMB grants the TWU and APFA the releases from mediation that they are seeking. If AA and the unions are serious about getting a fair contract for both sides then a little kick in the arse can only help. If AA is going to destroy the Amt career at this company, then lets get it over with so that the affected people can make a informed and rationale decision on whether to move on to different pastures.

 

[TWU informer]

"We are negotiating in good faith," Horton said. "It is our objective to see our people fairly compensated and well-compensated, but also that the company is competitive and strong for the long term."

Balance this statement by Horton against the company proposal to the Mechanic and Related Group.

All he views is dollars and ignores skill and experience.

50% unlicensed AMT's at overhaul bases
30% unlicensed AMT's at the line stations.
and Upgrading Toilet Cleaners to Plant Maintenance Men in exchange for outsourcing those jobs.

Mr. Horton destruction of the skill level with your maintenance program in such a manner is far from the correct path to meet an objective of competetive and strong. You sir need to walk a day or two in our shoes and take your "cash only view" blinders off about what makes AA strong and competetive.

 

[eolesen]

How much do you get paid to insure we are corrected on these boards "E". Is that a function of your "new" job? I only ask because depending on the cost you do a good job and wonder if it is worth it to whoever gets the invoice.

AA pays me about double the rate AMFA was paying you during the card drive, "D"...

Since I'm now one of those oh-so-despicable-and-overpaid consultants to the travel/transport industry, these forums are actually a pretty valuable part of my daily "what's the pulse of the industry today?" reading, believe it or not. For that I get paid real money, not Del Femme Bucks...

 

[TWU informer]

AA pays me about double the rate AMFA was paying you during the card drive, "D"...

Since I'm now one of those oh-so-despicable-and-overpaid consultants to the travel/transport industry, these forums are actually a pretty valuable part of my daily "what's the pulse of the industry today?" reading, believe it or not. For that I get paid real money, not Del Femme Bucks...

Lol on the Del Femme bucks statement.

You seem to be more in a mode of "influence" the pulse, rather "what's" the pulse of the industry.

What is the name of the company you currently for?

 

[star power]

Balance this statement by Horton against the company proposal to the Mechanic and Related Group.

All he views is dollars and ignores skill and experience.

50% unlicensed AMT's at overhaul bases
30% unlicensed AMT's at the line stations.
and Upgrading Toilet Cleaners to Plant Maintenance Men in exchange for outsourcing those jobs.

Mr. Horton destruction of the skill level with your maintenance program in such a manner is far from the correct path to meet an objective of competetive and strong. You sir need to walk a day or two in our shoes and take your "cash only view" blinders off about what makes AA strong and competetive.

Mr. Horton could not walk in a AMT shoes, because Mr. Horton could not sign the aircraft log page electronicly or manually, because he's not a licensed AMT.

He might be able to bribe a AMT or Jr. mechanic to do the work, and then bribe the Lead AMT or Chief AMT to sign for the work in the aircraft log, or he would ask a manager to sign the work off. If not the flight would be cancaled.

Mr. Horton could not walk in a ramp service employee shoes for a shift, because after about one hour of loading and unloading a MD80 in the baggage bin his knees, back, and shoulders would be blown out, he would have to claim industrial injury, and be off one year.

Any way with all the mishandle baggage when he would work during that one hour, AA would have to have FedEx retreive all the missing baggage if AA could find the bagagge.

I think Mr. Horton will exceed in his endeveors and will leave AMR before he tells the Chairman of the Board of AMR that the company needs to file BK.