Hopeful
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- Dec 21, 2002
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American Airlines to hold back summer expansion
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TWU informer
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That's just it!
In France the workers do not wait for the "Union" to take action.
In France, the workers are the "union" and they do not need permission or someone called a leader to hold their hand.
It really isn't just a "weak" union in the USA, it is fear mongering cowards for workers waiting for someone to tell them they are angry and they need to stage a protest.
Even the mexican immigrants know how to protest without being told to do so or having hands held.
- Dec 21, 2002
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I hate to burst your bubble but in France it is almost impossible to fire someone after you hire them. Therefore there is no reason to perform. The law being protested gives employers the right to fire someone, under the age of 26, in their first 2 years of employment kinda like the 6 months probation American has. That is why there is ramapant unemployment in the under 26 age group because once you hire them it is almost impossible to get rid of them and employers do not want unproven worker over there because it is so hard to get rid of them. :unsure: I wouldnt go using France as a model of union tactics.
Second about the illegal aliens protesting.They were told by Telemundo and Univision to go out into the streets and protest. They were organized in a way although they probably new nothing about what they were protesting about except that the free ride was in danger of coming to an end.
Why should they jump ahead of everybody else in line that is doing it legally? They have already shown a willingness to break our laws. They should be shipped to the most southern point of Mexico.But yet its Ok for every other country to have immigration laws but not us. You should see what the penalty is in Mexico for illegal immigration in Mexico. Instant jail time. Then deportation. But our neighbors to the south complain when we try to do the same thing. :rant:
- Dec 21, 2002
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More on the French Job protest situation.
(AP) Chirac Makes Some Concessions on Jobs Law
Mar 31 2006
By NATHALIE SCHUCK
Associated Press Writer
PARIS
President Jacques Chirac said Friday he would press ahead with a contentious labor law making it easier to fire workers, but he offered some concessions in hopes of calming furious protests that led to nationwide strikes.
Chirac said he would reduce a trial period during which employees could be summarily dismissed from two years to one, and he would require employers to offer reasons for the dismissal.
In preserving the principle that workers under 26 would face a lack of job security, Chirac came down on the side of his prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, who has argued that businesses will welcome the added flexibility, encouraging hirings that will bring down France's chronic youth unemployment rates.
The contested jobs law "can be an effective tool for employment," Chirac said.
The concessions appeared to anger, not appease, opponents of the law, who wanted it scrapped altogether.
We don't want to negotiate ... we don't want it at all," Bruno Julliard, head of the largest students' union, said on TF1 television. "The president had the chance to give a clear answer, which he didn't do."
The head of the Worker's Force union, Jean-Claude Mailly, said strikes already planned for next Tuesday should go ahead.
A modified law "is not what was asked for," he said.
Before Chirac's speech, hundreds of students converged peacefully on the Place de la Bastille in Paris to demand that he not enact the law.
The French leader, however, said youth unemployment is a problem that cannot be ignored, and he reiterated his conservative government's determination to make labor laws more flexible to free up enterprises.
"The time has come to move forward," Chirac said. "We must work together to end this shocking situation whereby companies, out of fear of excessive inflexibilities, prefer to refuse an order or to move overseas rather than hire, even when so many people are trapped in unemployment."
Young workers face a 22 percent unemployment rate _ the highest in Western Europe.
Most French workers hold a permanent contract and can plan to hold their jobs until retirement. Employers who want to fire a worker must give three months' notice to most employees, pay fines to the state and provide up to three years' severance pay.
The crisis has wrecked government ties with unions, and made labor leaders unusually united. It has radicalized youths, heightening already widespread fears about globalization and reviving suspicions about bosses and capitalism _ possibly causing a long-lasting setback for the cause of reform.
Many youths who have protested fear job market challenges from rising economies like India and China and hope to secure permanent, highly protected job contracts that many of their parents enjoy.
I think that we, the american worker, aint got nothing on the French!
(AP) Chirac Makes Some Concessions on Jobs Law
Mar 31 2006
By NATHALIE SCHUCK
Associated Press Writer
PARIS
President Jacques Chirac said Friday he would press ahead with a contentious labor law making it easier to fire workers, but he offered some concessions in hopes of calming furious protests that led to nationwide strikes.
Chirac said he would reduce a trial period during which employees could be summarily dismissed from two years to one, and he would require employers to offer reasons for the dismissal.
In preserving the principle that workers under 26 would face a lack of job security, Chirac came down on the side of his prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, who has argued that businesses will welcome the added flexibility, encouraging hirings that will bring down France's chronic youth unemployment rates.
The contested jobs law "can be an effective tool for employment," Chirac said.
The concessions appeared to anger, not appease, opponents of the law, who wanted it scrapped altogether.
We don't want to negotiate ... we don't want it at all," Bruno Julliard, head of the largest students' union, said on TF1 television. "The president had the chance to give a clear answer, which he didn't do."
The head of the Worker's Force union, Jean-Claude Mailly, said strikes already planned for next Tuesday should go ahead.
A modified law "is not what was asked for," he said.
Before Chirac's speech, hundreds of students converged peacefully on the Place de la Bastille in Paris to demand that he not enact the law.
The French leader, however, said youth unemployment is a problem that cannot be ignored, and he reiterated his conservative government's determination to make labor laws more flexible to free up enterprises.
"The time has come to move forward," Chirac said. "We must work together to end this shocking situation whereby companies, out of fear of excessive inflexibilities, prefer to refuse an order or to move overseas rather than hire, even when so many people are trapped in unemployment."
Young workers face a 22 percent unemployment rate _ the highest in Western Europe.
Most French workers hold a permanent contract and can plan to hold their jobs until retirement. Employers who want to fire a worker must give three months' notice to most employees, pay fines to the state and provide up to three years' severance pay.
The crisis has wrecked government ties with unions, and made labor leaders unusually united. It has radicalized youths, heightening already widespread fears about globalization and reviving suspicions about bosses and capitalism _ possibly causing a long-lasting setback for the cause of reform.
Many youths who have protested fear job market challenges from rising economies like India and China and hope to secure permanent, highly protected job contracts that many of their parents enjoy.
I think that we, the american worker, aint got nothing on the French!
TWU informer
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You cannot take this one strike issue and make their strength appear stupid and meaningless.
There have been many strikes in france over many issues. Get your mind back outside the box and look at the big picture.
The point I was making, had nothing to do with today's current issue, but rather their ability to stand and fight.
Unlike the cowards in the US work force. These people take a stand. Regardless of the issue. If they were faced with the bullshit going on against workers in the airline industry in this country, the entire transportation system would have been shut down a long time ago, and the outcomes of the BK hearings would be much different.
DO you get it now?
There have been many strikes in france over many issues. Get your mind back outside the box and look at the big picture.
The point I was making, had nothing to do with today's current issue, but rather their ability to stand and fight.
Unlike the cowards in the US work force. These people take a stand. Regardless of the issue. If they were faced with the bullshit going on against workers in the airline industry in this country, the entire transportation system would have been shut down a long time ago, and the outcomes of the BK hearings would be much different.
DO you get it now?
operaations
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- Jul 31, 2003
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I understand....so since you are such a hard core Union person are you currently working and being paid by an airline or are you standing up for what you believe like the people in France and walking out on the job to prove your point.
I assume you are at work like everyone else getting paid.
I assume you are at work like everyone else getting paid.
TWU informer
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- Dec 21, 2002
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Im going to have to disagree with you. The french are protesting because they are lazy and want to keep the govt handouts. This is why they are falling behind of other industrial nations. Their socialist polocies are eroding their own work force and now their whole country is suffering due to lack of competition.If you have ever been to France yo will understand what I mean.
TWU informer
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You continue to miss my point completely.
I am not advocating that we turn into French, or even socialist. I am not interested in "being like them", as you seem to somehow want my post to read, but having the fortitude to take a stand when being screwed would be nice once in awhile.
Sorry if you can't seem to get the point. But by all means, feel free to take what I am saying wrong further and disagree all you wish.
BTW, what is you report date to AFW?
- Dec 21, 2002
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Making them perform for a job is not being screwed. I believe you are using the wrong example for unionism.They are not being screwed. The are actually going to have to perform to keep their job for the 1st year and their upset about it well BOO HOO! AS for my report date it will be April 10th probably. The Dissident is coming to AFW.
TWU informer
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OK You are correct. Having industry leading concessions, without membership ratification is far superior unionism than standing and fighting. My mistake.
- Dec 21, 2002
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Once again I said you used the wrong example. The french are not the best example to use, yea sure their mad but mad for the wrong reasons same way with the illegals. The best example to use would have been the Eastern strike. Since it is directly related to the airline industry.
Bagbelt
Senior
- Apr 3, 2004
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On what due you base the French as being lazy? Because they have employment rights we can only envy? Our ranking in engineering and trade as well as education has been waning for years. We work longer and longer with less and have little to show for it. It's like the surrender thing; I think France lost 3-4 million troops in WW1, it speaks to ignorance to say they have never fought. It isn't just France, most of the EU enjoy better protection. You only live once, healthcare and pensions are doable in the land of million dollar ballplayers and rappers.
markkus757
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- Jul 26, 2004
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EU citizens also have much higher taxes to pay as well as significantly lower productivity. I don't really care for government freebies. I've talk to my grandfather about the great depression and he says anyone younger than 60 has it easy compared to the way life used to be. I tend to agree with this other than the fact that politicians no longer look out for the public's best interest and are selling everyone down the river. If you're mad, then stop re-electing these jerks. :down:
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