American Airlines makes a move to dominate at LAX

[jcw]

Right - it's better to fly fuel inefficient aircraft with a subpar product
 
No need to copy DL here
 
DL has been so successful in LA it has to move it's hub to SEA - too much competition - so moved to a city without competition

 

[traderjake]

It's a great airplane but the real question has to be if it generates the revenues comparable to other  "lesser" carriers using "lesser" aircraft on comparable routes.
 

 
I fixed it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

funny... some of those "lesser" carriers generate "greater" revenues.

how can THAT be?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Right - it's better to fly fuel inefficient aircraft with a subpar product
 
No need to copy DL here
 
DL has been so successful in LA it has to move it's hub to SEA - too much competition - so moved to a city without competition

Exactly. Who cares about the revenue (humans) in the seats. No need to give them the highest quality product (sarcasm dripping).

 

[jcw]

DL knows it's constrained in LA and has had years to build up an Asian gateway
 
If we want to point to DL flying SYD - DL had a partner flying to SYD multiple times per day - why would you start flights to that city
 
Although DL has a strong record of treating partners poorly just have to look at KE and how they treated KE over the years

 

[topDawg]

Right - it's better to fly fuel inefficient aircraft with a subpar product
 
No need to copy DL here
 
DL has been so successful in LA it has to move it's hub to SEA - too much competition - so moved to a city without competition

what exactly has DL moved to SEA from LAX? 
 

DL knows it's constrained in LA and has had years to build up an Asian gateway
 
If we want to point to DL flying SYD - DL had a partner flying to SYD multiple times per day - why would you start flights to that city
 
Although DL has a strong record of treating partners poorly just have to look at KE and how they treated KE over the years

DL has just as many flights to Asia as AA does. 2 each. HND/NRT for DL NRT/PVG for AA

 

[jcw]

They have not moved anything - they could not make the Asian gateway work at LAX - DL metal flies to two destinations from LA - SYD and NRT - let's compare that to AA flying out of LAX to Asia - AA flies PVG and NRT - looks like a tie
 
If we go region by region DL has in total 3 more international destinations out of LA
 
Canada: - AA wins
AA: YEG, YYZ
DL: None
 
South/Central America: - DL wins by a long shot
AA: SJD, GRU, LIR
DL: SAL, SJO, PVR, MTY, BJX, LIR, GDL, CUN, GUA, BZE
 
Europe: - Tie
AA: LHR
DL: LHR
 
So with all the pounding AA has been under on this thread - if DL was so strong in LA - it would have been able to make AMS, PEK, HKG, CDG, ICN, PVG and HND work from LA instead of having to make it work in SEA
 
SEA is a very solid strategy lots of good companies in the Northwest, etc - Not sure how many Boeing folks are flying Airbus aircraft to Asia so that might be one exception - plus little to no competition out of SEA - if LA was so good the "gods" in meca (Atlanta) would not have dreamed up the SEA strategy - you have to start from that position - there was no reason to build up SEA from scratch if everything else was going so great in the network
 
I wish DL much success in SEA - can others come to terms to wish AA success with it's strategies - or does AA just have to be pounded over and over again and how DL is so superior in everything it does

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA and DL will both serve YVR.

AA has always been larger to Canada than DL has.

DL serves BOTH HND and NRT. Since DL carries more revenue on LAX-HND arriving and departing from Tokyo at night than AA carries to NRT during the daylight, HND really does matter.

And DL carries far more to NRT from LAX than AA does on either of its two LAX-Asia flights.



 

DL knows it's constrained in LA and has had years to build up an Asian gateway
 
If we want to point to DL flying SYD - DL had a partner flying to SYD multiple times per day - why would you start flights to that city
 
Although DL has a strong record of treating partners poorly just have to look at KE and how they treated KE over the years

uh... you do realize that UA, which has far more experience in Asia, has also not put any more effort into building LAX to Asia than DL has. In fact, UA had a lot more presence from LAX to Asia than they have now.

given that UA has decided the LAX market is not worth fighting for against foreign airlines other than to keep AA from eroding UA's SFO hub, it should be clear that BOTH DL and UA aren't interested in building LAX as a massive gateway to Asia which is what some people here still seem to think AA will do.

DL came to the same conclusion that UA did... have 3 hub in the western US, use LAX as the anchor for the local market to Japan plus serve Australia, and build a more northern hub which has a lot less foreign competition and also where a large enough hub can be built.

AA is the one with the different strategy, not DL and UA.

 

[jcw]

AA really does not have a different strategy - it just started late - which everyone has fully admited
 
Just like DL is late to South America

 

[WorldTraveler]

where else will AA build out Asia from the western US besides LAX?

it IS a different strategy if AA has one gateway and one interior hub compared to a total of 3 for both DL and UA.

DL and UA both lack only the S. Florida to Latin America market. UA bought it and then dismantled it. DL never flew MIA to S. America.

Until DL goes after MIA-S. America, DL will have a structural disadvantage to Latin America compared to AA.

and that is the point. DL accepts where they are and makes the rest of Latin AMerica that they do serve work. And DL bought shares in two partners to help offset DL's weakness.

AA might come to a different place in Asia. for now, they have a disadvantage to DL and UA, esp. from the west coast.

 

[jcw]

btw- sorry that I forgot HND - so DL does have one more Asian flight over AA
 
did you just admit another weakness of DL
 
AA does have weakness on the west coast to Asia - I have said that before - however I don't pound on it - in every post

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, DL, UA, and AA EACH have two flights/day LAX to Asia.

DL and UA have a flight each to SYD, UA also has one more to Australia on its own metal while DL and AA have a JV .

AA has a flight to GRU.

each has LHR plus JVs on other routes to Europe


LAX int'l as with the rest of the market has never been more closely matched between the big 3 as it is now.

 

[topDawg]

They have not moved anything - they could not make the Asian gateway work at LAX - DL metal flies to two destinations from LA - SYD and NRT - let's compare that to AA flying out of LAX to Asia - AA flies PVG and NRT - looks like a tie

Delta has flights to NRT and HND in Asia. AA PVG and NRT. 
 

If we go region by region DL has in total 3 more international destinations out of LA
 
Canada: - AA wins
AA: YEG, YYZ
DL: None

Delta and AA are both starting YVR from LAX. Starts in DEC for Delta. Not sure about AA. 
 

South/Central America: - DL wins by a long shot
AA: SJD, GRU, LIR
DL: SAL, SJO, PVR, MTY, BJX, LIR, GDL, CUN, GUA, BZE

DL is adding ZIH, ZLO, and MZT also. all start in DEC
 

So with all the pounding AA has been under on this thread - if DL was so strong in LA - it would have been able to make AMS, PEK, HKG, CDG, ICN, PVG and HND work from LA instead of having to make it work in SEA

AMS/CDG are done via the JV with AF/KL. It would kind of be like AA adding LAX-MAD.....they could do it, but why? 
 
and LAX-PVG is a money pit. Once AA added it, UA jumped in and MU is adding capacity. I think the same can be said about AA though. If AA is so strong in LA why are they growing DFW-Asia not LAX? 
 
LAX-Asia is a tough nut to crack. Most of the carriers have a ton of capacity in the market place and lower cost than US airlines. Why in the world would Delta jump into a market like LAX-PVG when they can start SEA-PVG and it be profitable right out of the gate? 
 

SEA is a very solid strategy lots of good companies in the Northwest, etc - Not sure how many Boeing folks are flying Airbus aircraft to Asia so that might be one exception - plus little to no competition out of SEA - if LA was so good the "gods" in meca (Atlanta) would not have dreamed up the SEA strategy - you have to start from that position - there was no reason to build up SEA from scratch if everything else was going so great in the network

I'm not trying to jump into this pissing contest. WT is the one who wants to say Delta wins at all. FWIW. 

 

[jcw]

hardly any mention of DL in this article
 
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lax-ny-20141127-story.html

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh. try again.... your bias clearly prevented you from reading what is right there in black and white

"Not to be outdone, Delta Air Lines, with eight daily round-trip flights between L.A. and New York, hired celebrity chef Michael Chiarello to create multi-course meals for Business Elite passengers. Elite passengers get a chauffeured Porsche to take them between terminals to make connecting flights."

and even though the article said about a half dozen times that this type of service is profitable, the obvious results are that the transcons are not profitable for most airlines.

AA didn't get rid of 20% of its market share because it is profitable not unlike what UA did years ago.

Even with the success of Mint, B6 is far from assured that it will be profitable.

and it isn't clear that DL is profitable on the transcons. Despite the talk of airlines within airlines and the failure of Song, it is ironic - and hypocritical - that AA and UA both operate airlines within airlines on the transcons that have products, fleets, and services which aren't used elsewhere on their networks while DL uses a product and aircraft that is similar to its intercontinental product - the same one that DL has used to increase its int'l market share in NYC.

and despite all of the media hoopla that is taking place with the advent of Mint and AA's new service, history in the airline industry shows that there will be a downfall coming; there have been so many in the industry that it is virtually impossible to count them all.

the chances are high that some players will shrink and others will no longer serve the transcon market at all.

Even if AA manages to make JFK-LAX work, they will very likely end up exiting JFK-SFO.