American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

That is because Delta is such a pro at keeping the unions out at Delta. I also thought that the mechanics that remain at Delta would some day also go union one day, but Delta just keeps the pay and bennies up enough to keep them at bay...

That's definitely part of it, but they also actually treat Tech Ops employees like professionals (certainly when compared to the ramp and gates), and that helps too.

BTW Tim since you again brought it up. I don’t think UGE or ENVOY is anywhere near as big as DGS. DGS has 19,000 ground handling employees.

Yep, and a LOT of them work handling other carriers like UAL thanks to the buzzsaw taken to scope clauses.

IAM members on the street or exercising on to the system.
Lack of Scope means UAL can now put the right size A/C on the right route, putting downward pressure on OAL employees (spoiler alert: that includes AA).
DGS handles the work in many places, which means DL profits.

Great job 141!

 

[WeAAsles]

Great job 141!

Didn’t UAL go through a Bankruptcy which IAM DL 141 had did to deal with? Didn’t that start the ball rolling at UAL?

Amazing what happened to you in Bankruptcy but the reality is like a ghost in your mind.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Didn’t UAL go through a Bankruptcy which IAM DL 141 had did to deal with? Didn’t that start the ball rolling at UAL?

Amazing what happened to you in Bankruptcy but the reality is like a ghost in your mind.

yea and they never gave up scope and health care or part time caps in bankruptcy.
You keep saying that the ramp came out better with more scope but it gave scope up. They gave up big concessions on the ramp to get more scope for passenger service.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim you do know that the Company would be counting the 10% as part of their overall costs including the buyouts which are something they would write down on their taxes. Do you really believe they are going to cost themselves a whole 10% above their nearest competitor in overall ground workers Labor expense.

Edit: Forgot to add through attrition and buyouts and a 12 year to top scale wage ladder that 10% will more than likely translate to AA having a cost advantage over their competitors in the next 2 to 3 years.

C’mon man you have to be smarter than that.

We used to have double time over 12 and the Conpany made sure to never go past 12. So that’s just smoke and mirrors.

Part time caps absolutely. You (never do) still didn’t answer me what your fly said that caps were going to be? Tick Tock?

I did hear abou the breaks.

As far as Peterson, nobody listens to him. He is a kook

View attachment 13646

I agree about Peterson.

 

[WeAAsles]

yea and they never gave up scope and health care or part time caps in bankruptcy.
You keep saying that the ramp came out better with more scope but it gave scope up. They gave up big concessions on the ramp to get more scope for passenger service.

Who never gave up all of those things in Bankruptcy? IAM 141 Ramp at UAL?

Then you say they did give up Scope? You’re confusing me now Timmy.

I agree I should be locked up in a Psche ward

Hey if you say so man.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Who never gave up all of those things in Bankruptcy? IAM 141 Ramp at UAL.

not in bankruptcy. They gave it up in 2013.

 

[ALUS78]

not in bankruptcy. They gave it up in 2013.

Its hard to keep track the IAM gives (gave) up so much and to think they are going to give up more with our next contract.Ludicrous considering todays environment of billions of dollars profit

 

[Tim Nelson]

Weez are you going to run for office again?

If you are so close with Alex why don’t you ask him for an international gig in NY?

Josh

id actually vote for weez and be his 10th vote out of 2300 eligible. I could care less if he blows off flights.

 

[Kev3188]

yea and they never gave up scope and health care or part time caps in bankruptcy.
You keep saying that the ramp came out better with more scope but it gave scope up. They gave up big concessions on the ramp to get more scope for passenger service.

not in bankruptcy. They gave it up in 2013.

Nothing like going backwards on a CBA after exiting BK.

Don’t be too hard on Dave. He didn’t start currying favor with Lehive and Co. until relatively recently. He’ll get the timelines right soon enough.

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA .Cant vouch for LGA staffing but in DCA LAA n LUS fleet crews cannot work together on a single flight . BWI they do. Probably a number of other cities? But i dont know if itll be "fixed" in jcba. As fo staffing. I know theres OT n swaps available always

 

[WeAAsles]

not in bankruptcy. They gave it up in 2013.

What exactly did they give up at (UNITED AIRLINES) and what exactly were the circumstances that made them do so?

Actually why the F should I give a chit?

Its hard to keep track the IAM gives (gave) up so much and to think they are going to give up more with our next contract.Ludicrous considering todays environment of billions of dollars profit

Your nonsense grows extremely tiresome sometimes. But hey I kinda enjoy playing this game here anyway.

Nothing like going backwards on a CBA after exiting BK.

Don’t be too hard on Dave. He didn’t start currying favor with Lehive and Co. until relatively recently. He’ll get the timelines right soon enough.

Why should I really care about what went on over at (UNITED AIRLINES) Besides you’re hatred of anything and everyone having something to do with this particular 141 (Number) is pretty transparent.

You guys really should start talking about all the crap you like to talk about in the right Airline threads. Or do a thread starter or two here and there.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA .Cant vouch for LGA staffing but in DCA LAA n LUS fleet crews cannot work together on a single flight . BWI they do. Probably a number of other cities? But i dont know if itll be "fixed" in jcba. As fo staffing. I know theres OT n swaps available always

Thanks robbed. Yea the Company doesn’t have the full synergies of cross utilization. But the next response will again inform that the Association blew it, lol.

 

[Recalcitrant]

Man I hear this seniority discrimination lawsuit from ORD will be huge against the company and union good job not having members contractual backs 6a to 8a guy lol but embarrassing. Quit already

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

BTW Tim since you again brought it up. I don’t think UGE or ENVOY is anywhere near as big as DGS. DGS has 19,000 ground handling employees.

http://m.startribune.com/workers-at-delta-subsidiary-protest-benefits-lost-in-sale/503351031/

And another problem with trying to regain some of the old cities we lost is that the CWA may have jumped in to take over under the Envoy label? But I’m sure any contracts that exist in those cities as far as the Ground handling groups don’t have any type of job protection if the Company agrees to let us rehabitate.

https://www.envoyair.com/2016/04/15/envoy-earns-cwa-ground-handling/

CWA only has the outstations per the NMB ruling about 2 years ago. TWU got most former AA stations for ramp and are trying to get the company to add BNA, MEM, MSY along with IAH, ABA, and IND. Envoy and AA know that having union in these stations, especially in IAH, will dramatically reduce the cost benefit that Envoy gives paying ridiculously low wages. They would have to upguage staff tremendously at higher pay. That's why in my opinion I think AA is bs'ing about not reopening more stations. With some of these stations, they may not have a choice. In particular IAH that is well over the threshold in respect to flights.

 

[Tim Nelson]

What exactly did they give up at (UNITED AIRLINES) and what exactly were the circumstances that made them do so?

Actually why the F should I give a chit?



Your nonsense grows extremely tiresome sometimes. But hey I kinda enjoy playing this game here anyway.



Why should I really care about what went on over at (UNITED AIRLINES) Besides you’re hatred of anything and everyone having something to do with this particular 141 (Number) is pretty transparent.

You guys really should start talking about all the crap you like to talk about in the right Airline threads. Or do a thread starter or two here and there.

The topic of this thread is "Negotiations". That's why you should have given a crap about United. I keep telling you that and Gary Peterson that, but you guys don't listen. Has nothing to do with any hatred, I talk about United, because I have to when we approach the topic of negotiations.
You do realize we are involved in pattern bargaining now, right? And as soon as the IAM gave up $0 cost health insurance for $400 health insurance, and other things, it forced LUS insurance down the toilet. Especially after we gave up all of our leverage with the cross utilization.

BTW, if you listened to any of the company videos and town halls they keep sticking this United agreement up our butt. Why? For you, Baskett, and Peterson to discredit the United ramp deal tells me that you guys have absolutely no idea on the predicament we are in. Baskett himself voted to recommend the United deal and then told me here (Search for it) that he did so because it was 'none of his business' and he didn't want United AGC's voting against any LUS contract. The problem Brother Baskett has is that he failed to realize that the United contract would come back to haunt us.

You asked what did they give up? The United Ramp/Stores Contract 2005-2009 gave up everything. Went from $0 health care to $300-$500 depending upon city. Part time was capped at 30% systemwide, now it is unlimited. In ORD we had 30 United part timers. Now they have close to 300 and expanding as people retire. You like to talk about Delta, but Delta will end up with less part time than United. Klemm said he did this to expand the union membership. 2 part timers = twice the dues with the IAM. Why did the IAM give up massive concessions? To expand membership. The contract was sold by 'expanding scope' into express at hubs, but this is only good for another few years. A short term gain that is going bye bye.....just in time for the IAM to mobilize UGE to fill in the gaps in 2023. So the IAM won't lose any members. The IAM has already used UGE to fill in several stations that used to be mainline union. Take for instance Ontario. All mainline people there were removed for UGE. Then they all got a letter saying that they could return to ONT and continue their IAM membership but at $11 for UGE.

But perhaps one of the biggest concessions at United was getting rid of the Lead Pay Scale. The Lead Pay Scale only had one step. Top Out + Lead Pay.
That means if you were a 2 year fleet serviceman, and you took lead, you didn't have to go up any progression, you went straight to top out.

And of course they gave up a lot of other things as well. Cut their profit sharing in half. Eliminated the .75 longevity pay, and a host of other things.