American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[MetalMover]

Metal I wanted to come back to this since Conehead commented.

What 50 or 60 votes? I don’t recall you guys sending in enough cards to the NMB to Call for a Representation election even much less an actual vote? Are you saying that you were 50 to 60 Cards short?

Yes, my apologies..
Either way, was not a super majority..
Whether you want to accept it or not, shenanigans was played by the TWU and they DID include dead, retired, former and members turned mangagement.

 

[MetalMover]

Dead people on what list that the TWU sent to who?

Can you answer this comment with some more specificity?

When the drive was ongoing and card count in play. the TWU's list of who should be included in the vote included dead, retired, former and members turned management. Essentially non eligible and impossible to vote but included in the eligible count.

 

[Buck]

When will we be trading your $105,000 yearly salary for my $65,000 yearly salary?

We do that and I’ll glady give you both our $2,09 AND full pay for first day sick?

Do we have a deal?

Well finally with that one you sound dumb? At Tulsa, we have 50+ year-olds taking the time to get their A&P Licenses. Machinist, Welders etc... are protecting themselves, for the future, if they have 10 years or more to go this could be lucrative. Also even without over time, I don't earn $105000 but $108000 a year. When are you going to take "Unlimited Part Time" for Fleet Service so I can have my 7th week of vacation in my 29th year like United?

and you misspelled "gladly"​

 

[Buck]

Actually it’s worse than that on fleet side only 1.50 here for cc

Yes I saw that, I guess the company is fixing that this contract?

 

[Buck]

I'm referring to Fleet, not Mtc.

Yes I understand

 

[Buck]

This is where you and others lose ALL credibility. You earn roughly $105,000 per year FT BASE pay. And that doesn’t even include any OT or your 401k Match.

You have the NERVE to say you’re making the crumbs? WTF, get real.

I make $40,000 per year BASE less than you and why don’t you go ask what the people over at ENVOY make per year. Hint: A hell of a lot less than you and I.

Crumbs?!?!?!? WOW!!!!!!

You do realize that mechanics earn more than you and your group because we have taken the time and expense to improve ourselves. Our jobs are vastly different and most know this. Do you believe that if the mechanics leave your union, that things will be the same?

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

C'mon WeAAsles, get with the program and just sign a card already.
How bout showing some solidarity. Oh that's right, you can't sign a card you're not a mechanic. Well you could at least pass some out.

 

[Buck]

Metal I wanted to come back to this since Conehead commented.

What 50 or 60 votes? I don’t recall you guys sending in enough cards to the NMB to Call for a Representation election even much less an actual vote? Are you saying that you were 50 to 60 Cards short?

If that’s the case do you have a copy of the NMB decision saying that you were short?

And why would you file without an extra buffer anyway?

And BTW before the IBT is brought up as being in cahoots with the TWU again I need to ask why would they be? What would be in it for the IBT?

The IBT left the AFL/CIO in 2005 just so they could raid other Unions.

Dues money, but in this case, the IBT had some issues with the membership over the security of the "drive" cards which the IBT was filling out cards for members that would not vote for them. The IBT with it's AFL-CIO issue perhaps was to be an intervenor in the next union drive at American. The IBT was running as a Third candidate for representation. I am not sure of the AFL-CIO involvement, except the Industrial Unions do not move without permission. Today the AFL-CIO is to keep the two labor unions on the course and this what the Mechanics are angry.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You do realize that mechanics earn more than you and your group because we have taken the time and expense to improve ourselves. Our jobs are vastly different and most know this. Do you believe that if the mechanics leave your union, that things will be the same?

i think it will be better for both. Globalism has destroyed your craft insomuch that you are competing against workers making about $5 buck an hour. The Association isnt the answer as anything associated with the iam has destroyed mx jobs.

 

[737823]

I make $40,000 per year BASE less than you and why don’t you go ask what the people over at ENVOY make per year. Hint: A hell of a lot less than you and I.

And your high on the hog lots of downtime between Kloading widebody departures are subsidized by people at stations like TLH and PLS who are on their feet all day, in some cases cross utilized for a fraction of what you make yet they’re significantly more productive and bring more value to AA than you.

You can keep singing this idealist tune that everyone should get mainline scale and benefits like you do on DL organizing pages but at the end of the day there’s a finite amount the carriers can spend as they benchmark costs on a system level and you are crowding out what Envoy, DGS, UGE, McGee types make.

Josh

 

[737823]

i think it will be better for both. Globalism has destroyed your craft insomuch that you are competing against workers making about $5 buck an hour. The Association isnt the answer as anything associated with the iam has destroyed mx jobs.

Other than LUS has their been another MX group that has stayed with the IAM?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, my apologies..
Either way, was not a super majority..
Whether you want to accept it or not, shenanigans was played by the TWU and they DID include dead, retired, former and members turned mangagement.

Oh I’m 100% sure there were shenanigans happening on both sides. And I’ll never understand why anyone looking to change Unions is going to think the already embedded Union is going to make it easy for them?

Of course they’re not. Not just because of those in positions who don’t want to lose them or the dues flow but because there are still members who don’t support the change that you need to battle.

When the drive was ongoing and card count in play. the TWU's list of who should be included in the vote included dead, retired, former and members turned management. Essentially non eligible and impossible to vote but included in the eligible count.

Ok I’ve never understood this? Where did the AMFA Drive organizers get their eligibility list from? Who is LEGALLY required to provide those organizers a list?

Wouldn’t the NMB check that list for any inaccuracies? (Please don’t tell me the NMB is in cahoots)

BTW depending on how old that list might be wouldn’t you actually have some of those people die, retire, quit or go into Management for real?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Oh I’m 100% sure there were shenanigans happening on both sides. And I’ll never understand why anyone looking to change Unions is going to think the already embedded Union is going to make it easy for them?

Of course they’re not. Not just because of those in positions who don’t want to lose them or the dues flow but because there are still members who don’t support the change that you need to battle.




Ok I’ve never understood this? Where did the AMFA Drive organizers get their eligibility list from? Who is LEGALLY required to provide those organizers a list?

Wouldn’t the NMB check that list for any inaccuracies? (Please don’t tell me the NMB is in cahoots)

BTW depending on how old that list might be wouldn’t you actually have some of those people die, retire, quit or go into Management for real?

+1

 

[Tim Nelson]

Get this through your head man. The “””MAJORITY””” does “””NOT””” want to leave. If they did you would “””NOT””” still be a part of the TWU or the IAM PERIOD.

How many years has this been going on now?

When everyone else went AMFA, LAA STAYED TWU and LUS STAYED IAM.

That is true. I interpret the AMP to be a reasonable resistence to keep the Association accountable.
There has never been any evidence to suggest a majority isnt content with the current union.
I suspect this time will be no different since the guys in charge of the AMP have already pissed off some lus sympathizers who amp blocked due to some paranoid idea that they were spies.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well finally with that one you sound dumb? At Tulsa, we have 50+ year-olds taking the time to get their A&P Licenses. Machinist, Welders etc... are protecting themselves, for the future, if they have 10 years or more to go this could be lucrative. Also even without over time, I don't earn $105000 but $108000 a year. When are you going to take "Unlimited Part Time" for Fleet Service so I can have my 7th week of vacation in my 29th year like United?

and you misspelled "gladly"​

Not sure if “Unlimited Part Time” in IAM Represented Fleet Service is why IBT UAL Mechanics have a 7th week of Vacation but no I wouldn’t vote to lose something to give you more and I wouldn’t expect you to either.

$108,000. Pretty nice job that Association did getting you that huh.

You do realize that mechanics earn more than you and your group because we have taken the time and expense to improve ourselves. Our jobs are vastly different and most know this. Do you believe that if the mechanics leave your union, that things will be the same?

Of course I know why you “earn” more than I do and I think you “earn” every penny of it. But the posters “crumbs” line is asinine and you and I both know it. When I say I should make as much as you I’m being completely facetious. Go back to the context of the conversation and that should be pretty obvious.

I firmly believe that if you ever did leave the Ass. for real things would be much more difficult for you over time than they are now. AMFA at SWA proves that. Almost 6 years Negotiating only to finally get raises but no improvements at all to their SCOPE.

I think together yes your Groups do help us more than we help you but we would fare better than you would going with an “independent” Union. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking with it.

Dues money, but in this case, the IBT had some issues with the membership over the security of the "drive" cards which the IBT was filling out cards for members that would not vote for them. The IBT with it's AFL-CIO issue perhaps was to be an intervenor in the next union drive at American. The IBT was running as a Third candidate for representation. I am not sure of the AFL-CIO involvement, except the Industrial Unions do not move without permission. Today the AFL-CIO is to keep the two labor unions on the course and this what the Mechanics are angry.

You missed my point. What was in it for the IBT to try and help the TWU? And I say absolutely nothing as they were no longer under the AFL/CIO umbrella or their Constitutional no raiding clause. Yes the IBT had their own drive along with your AMFA one. Vultures always swoop in when they think possible prey is weak. TWU DID prove they weren’t as week as they appeared.

And on your last comment you mean “why” some or many even of the Mechanics are angry. I’ve always found individuals attempting to speak for all just a little insulting especially in very large groups like yours. I would never presume myself.