American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[swamt]

Question for all, if the IAM and TWU members had different contract improvements in our contract. Meaning IAM guys would get certain improvements while twu guys wouldn’t (We have heard different rumors)

Would that cause dissenting views of a contract we would share, and both pay dues for?

I say yes. That would still cause continuation of division amongst the mechanic groups as well as the other groups. This is why I have been saying one side will not like the results of certain work rules and regs as they will have to settle for one of the two different ways each of these two unions work their issues. Ex: Seniority within different classifications are done differently at each union.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Boys? I'm sure there was no malice intended, but that's insulting to the men & women on the ramp at all carriers.

Kev, Wanting to replace theTWU with AMFA has NEVER been been a put down of the men & women who work the ramp or stores or any other job at AA. It has been getting a different bargaining unit to represent the Maintenance & Related group. Many ramp workers feel that if we depart it will hurt them. So they want us to stay. We feel by doing that it hurts us. The days of the strength in numbers is over. The TWU has forever rolled over and the IAM was at one time strong but as all the carriers went by the wayside the IAM's power did as well. Unions don't even respect others picket lines. NWA was a perfect example.. At Eastern all were together in the fight. The railway labor act has taken self help away, in the airline biz with regards to the Big carriers. Affecting US economy has been the reason. For you to say we or anyone is disrespecting the other work groups is FALSE.

 

[dfw gen]

Stupid question but can you tell me the groups that are concidered "And Related" in mechs and related ?

Aircraft machanics, crew chiefs, inspectors, cleaners part, washers, welders,machinist shop repair persons.
Also title 2
Facilities maintenance, automotive.

Not an all inclusive list but you get the idea

 

[Vortilon]

Probably, but if you call it a JCBA then it suppose to be the same for all. It is taking two groups and joining them into one contractual agreement. It is suppose to eliminate the you and me and us and them into ALL members under the same agreement. That's why the association has been at it over four years now. Seniority and stations will merge. Everything should be the same or it will always be AA and USAIR or TWU and IAM. My opinion of course which means nothing anymore.

Gary Peterson dropped by the DFW hanger breakroom yesterday for a little Q & A session. All of Tim Nelson's rumors were put to bed. Gary stated that the company "so far" is balking at recommending their contract proposal be put up for vote. The company has to recommend it be voted on, then if the Association doesn't like what's in it, they can recommend a NO vote. Ideally it would be at least an agreement in principle or AIP that both sides agreed on - put up for vote. The scope is still an issue because of definitions on hours worked by a licensed AMT overseeing 10 unlicensed repair persons at a maintenance vendor. Company was trying to pull a fast one by not including the labor of the unlicensed repair people - as an example. With title II being sunsetted, the issue of who will be doing building maintenance in the future needs to be defined as well.

On vacation, the company wants 5th week at 25 years and 6th week at 30 years seniority. Union is pointing out that nobody in the industry has to wait that long, not even within AA in other groups. Asking for 5th week at 17 years, and 6th week at 25 years. 7th week was traded for SWA pay plus 3% - much higher than UAL.

Profit sharing was to match Delta's.

Company is sticking with the very weak $3K signing bonus, and doesn't want to pay RETRO. They also want to force all LAA into this weird $3K interest free loan situation, to cover the week or two for our pay to match up with the Workbrain System. Turns out, Workbrain can handle all the payroll as it is now, and there is absolutely no reason to force the change, it is only because some genius at HDQ wants to put everybody through this unnecessary process.

Company is pushing for title III to accomplish aircraft moves, which system wide could reduce line AMT headcount by over 700. That's a non starter.

Anyway, Gary stated they are not done trying to get something done before the end of 2019 per Doug Parkers statements last week. Tenative dates for continued talks are being set for mid January. That's about it.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Gary Peterson dropped by the DFW hanger breakroom yesterday for a little Q & A session. All of Tim Nelson's rumors were put to bed. Gary stated that the company "so far" is balking at recommending their contract proposal be put up for vote. The company has to recommend it be voted on, then if the Association doesn't like what's in it, they can recommend a NO vote. Ideally it would be at least an agreement in principle or AIP that both sides agreed on - put up for vote. The scope is still an issue because of definitions on hours worked by a licensed AMT overseeing 10 unlicensed repair persons at a maintenance vendor. Company was trying to pull a fast one by not including the labor of the unlicensed repair people - as an example. With title II being sunsetted, the issue of who will be doing building maintenance in the future needs to be defined as well.

On vacation, the company wants 5th week at 25 years and 6th week at 30 years seniority. Union is pointing out that nobody in the industry has to wait that long, not even within AA in other groups. Asking for 5th week at 17 years, and 6th week at 25 years. 7th week was traded for SWA pay plus 3% - much higher than UAL.

Profit sharing was to match Delta's.

Company is sticking with the very weak $3K signing bonus, and doesn't want to pay RETRO. They also want to force all LAA into this weird $3K interest free loan situation, to cover the week or two for our pay to match up with the Workbrain System. Turns out, Workbrain can handle all the payroll as it is now, and there is absolutely no reason to force the change, it is only because some genius at HDQ wants to put everybody through this unnecessary process.

Company is pushing for title III to accomplish aircraft moves, which system wide could reduce line AMT headcount by over 700. That's a non starter.

Anyway, Gary stated they are not done trying to get something done before the end of 2019 per Doug Parkers statements last week. Tenative dates for continued talks are being set for mid January. That's about it.

Well what this means is there will be no agreement next year, and in fact it appears the company is pushing this to get it to arbitration which nobody will be happy with.
Who knows maybe the Ass is hoping for that too.
Bottom line we will remain behind our peers for a very long time.
Don’t you just love this BS company and the mess we were forced into by those crooks at the AFCIO

 

[Tim Nelson]

Gary Peterson dropped by the DFW hanger breakroom yesterday for a little Q & A session. All of Tim Nelson's rumors were put to bed. Gary stated that the company "so far" is balking at recommending their contract proposal be put up for vote. The company has to recommend it be voted on, then if the Association doesn't like what's in it, they can recommend a NO vote. Ideally it would be at least an agreement in principle or AIP that both sides agreed on - put up for vote. The scope is still an issue because of definitions on hours worked by a licensed AMT overseeing 10 unlicensed repair persons at a maintenance vendor. Company was trying to pull a fast one by not including the labor of the unlicensed repair people - as an example. With title II being sunsetted, the issue of who will be doing building maintenance in the future needs to be defined as well.

On vacation, the company wants 5th week at 25 years and 6th week at 30 years seniority. Union is pointing out that nobody in the industry has to wait that long, not even within AA in other groups. Asking for 5th week at 17 years, and 6th week at 25 years. 7th week was traded for SWA pay plus 3% - much higher than UAL.

Profit sharing was to match Delta's.

Company is sticking with the very weak $3K signing bonus, and doesn't want to pay RETRO. They also want to force all LAA into this weird $3K interest free loan situation, to cover the week or two for our pay to match up with the Workbrain System. Turns out, Workbrain can handle all the payroll as it is now, and there is absolutely no reason to force the change, it is only because some genius at HDQ wants to put everybody through this unnecessary process.

Company is pushing for title III to accomplish aircraft moves, which system wide could reduce line AMT headcount by over 700. That's a non starter.

Anyway, Gary stated they are not done trying to get something done before the end of 2019 per Doug Parkers statements last week. Tenative dates for continued talks are being set for mid January. That's about it.

Peterson was inaccurate in everything you claimed he said.
As reported on my site, the company and union already agreed to 10% profit sharing. Peterson will take credit for it, when it happens, and why shouldnt he?
The ps is being driven by apa and im assuming the company wanted to be consistent.
I may have mentioned that here but im not sure as i dont comment on here anymore.
Unfortunately, prior to me mentioning it, peterson never brought up the double digit ps.

But he didnt refute it either other than to be technical and say no deal yet.
And there is full retro. Not sure what he is talking about regarding $3,000 unless he is only bringing that up to take credit on retro. Look, Mr Petersen has been lying for years and he even told everyone 2 weeks ago that there would be no update because they were deep into the weekend in negotiations.
Only after I ratted them out and posted that Mr Peterson was full of crap and that the company HASNT EVEN BEEN IN NEGOTIATIONS, did a Local President, who was there, instruct the twu leadership that he was NOT down with the lying narrative. All iam agcs were going to support the lie and every twu LP except only 1.
Garcia was apparently in panic mode and had to make up bs that the negotiations were done over the phone. Lmao.
And that bs was so awful that the association, for the first time, didnt end the update with any greeting but had an underling write it. They refused to end it "executive negotiation team" as it would have pissed off the nmb or company imo but dunno.
At any rate, my sources are highly credible and they have been spot on. That said, they do have an agenda so consider it hearsay but im convinced that the ta will be announced within 60 days including full retro and double digit ps and lus medical until its sunset.
Could all be bull but time will tell. If it has these things then isnt that a good thing?
Still, getting rid of 2 unions for 1 makes good sense and even if the company allows the association to bring home the bacon, amfa should coast to victory.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well what this means is there will be no agreement next year, and in fact it appears the company is pushing this to get it to arbitration which nobody will be happy with.
Who knows maybe the Ass is hoping for that too.
Bottom line we will remain behind our peers for a very long time.
Don’t you just love this BS company and the mess we were forced into by those crooks at the AFCIO

The iam has punted its last 2 major RLA negotiations to arbitration. The 85 years before that....0

 

[Kev3188]

For you to say we or anyone is disrespecting the other work groups is FALSE.

...Except I never said that...

My objection was only to using the term "boys" to refer to my workgroup. It's not only dismissive, but it's also not accurate. Plenty of men and women both on the ramp these days.

And just for clarity, I am ALL FOR each class/craft having representation that best meets their needs. They also need to work in conjunction with one another on larger issues.

Peace.

 

[Kev3188]

No, not intended. Been using that lingo since in aviation. Might be a bit old school but I never claim to be PC.

No worries. I hear ya.

 

[AOAMT86]

Gary Peterson dropped by the DFW hanger breakroom yesterday for a little Q & A session. All of Tim Nelson's rumors were put to bed. Gary stated that the company "so far" is balking at recommending their contract proposal be put up for vote. The company has to recommend it be voted on, then if the Association doesn't like what's in it, they can recommend a NO vote. Ideally it would be at least an agreement in principle or AIP that both sides agreed on - put up for vote. The scope is still an issue because of definitions on hours worked by a licensed AMT overseeing 10 unlicensed repair persons at a maintenance vendor. Company was trying to pull a fast one by not including the labor of the unlicensed repair people - as an example. With title II being sunsetted, the issue of who will be doing building maintenance in the future needs to be defined as well.

On vacation, the company wants 5th week at 25 years and 6th week at 30 years seniority. Union is pointing out that nobody in the industry has to wait that long, not even within AA in other groups. Asking for 5th week at 17 years, and 6th week at 25 years. 7th week was traded for SWA pay plus 3% - much higher than UAL.

Profit sharing was to match Delta's.

Company is sticking with the very weak $3K signing bonus, and doesn't want to pay RETRO. They also want to force all LAA into this weird $3K interest free loan situation, to cover the week or two for our pay to match up with the Workbrain System. Turns out, Workbrain can handle all the payroll as it is now, and there is absolutely no reason to force the change, it is only because some genius at HDQ wants to put everybody through this unnecessary process.

Company is pushing for title III to accomplish aircraft moves, which system wide could reduce line AMT headcount by over 700. That's a non starter.

Anyway, Gary stated they are not done trying to get something done before the end of 2019 per Doug Parkers statements last week. Tenative dates for continued talks are being set for mid January. That's about it.

Gary Peterson is a worthless piece of garbage . Pissed and moaned about the TWU until he got his seat at the international . Now he is an association lap dog. Wouldn't believe a word that piece of garbage says.

 

[ALUS78]

Peterson was inaccurate in everything you claimed he said.
As reported on my site, the company and union already agreed to 10% profit sharing. Peterson will take credit for it, when it happens, and why shouldnt he?
The ps is being driven by apa and im assuming the company wanted to be consistent.
I may have mentioned that here but im not sure as i dont comment on here anymore.
Unfortunately, prior to me mentioning it, peterson never brought up the double digit ps.

But he didnt refute it either other than to be technical and say no deal yet.
And there is full retro. Not sure what he is talking about regarding $3,000 unless he is only bringing that up to take credit on retro. Look, Mr Petersen has been lying for years and he even told everyone 2 weeks ago that there would be no update because they were deep into the weekend in negotiations.
Only after I ratted them out and posted that Mr Peterson was full of crap and that the company HASNT EVEN BEEN IN NEGOTIATIONS, did a Local President, who was there, instruct the twu leadership that he was NOT down with the lying narrative. All iam agcs were going to support the lie and every twu LP except only 1.
Garcia was apparently in panic mode and had to make up bs that the negotiations were done over the phone. Lmao.
And that bs was so awful that the association, for the first time, didnt end the update with any greeting but had an underling write it. They refused to end it "executive negotiation team" as it would have pissed off the nmb or company imo but dunno.
At any rate, my sources are highly credible and they have been spot on. That said, they do have an agenda so consider it hearsay but im convinced that the ta will be announced within 60 days including full retro and double digit ps and lus medical until its sunset.
Could all be bull but time will tell. If it has these things then isnt that a good thing?
Still, getting rid of 2 unions for 1 makes good sense and even if the company allows the association to bring home the bacon, amfa should coast to victory.

With this higher profit sharing versus a higher hourly wage.Someone has to use last years numbers wirh the new higher percentage to see if this is acceptable. I mean we have a chit load more employees than the other 3 carriers

 

[1AA]

Gary Peterson dropped by the DFW hanger breakroom yesterday for a little Q & A session. All of Tim Nelson's rumors were put to bed. Gary stated that the company "so far" is balking at recommending their contract proposal be put up for vote. The company has to recommend it be voted on, then if the Association doesn't like what's in it, they can recommend a NO vote. Ideally it would be at least an agreement in principle or AIP that both sides agreed on - put up for vote. The scope is still an issue because of definitions on hours worked by a licensed AMT overseeing 10 unlicensed repair persons at a maintenance vendor. Company was trying to pull a fast one by not including the labor of the unlicensed repair people - as an example. With title II being sunsetted, the issue of who will be doing building maintenance in the future needs to be defined as well.

On vacation, the company wants 5th week at 25 years and 6th week at 30 years seniority. Union is pointing out that nobody in the industry has to wait that long, not even within AA in other groups. Asking for 5th week at 17 years, and 6th week at 25 years. 7th week was traded for SWA pay plus 3% - much higher than UAL.

Profit sharing was to match Delta's.

Company is sticking with the very weak $3K signing bonus, and doesn't want to pay RETRO. They also want to force all LAA into this weird $3K interest free loan situation, to cover the week or two for our pay to match up with the Workbrain System. Turns out, Workbrain can handle all the payroll as it is now, and there is absolutely no reason to force the change, it is only because some genius at HDQ wants to put everybody through this unnecessary process.

Company is pushing for title III to accomplish aircraft moves, which system wide could reduce line AMT headcount by over 700. That's a non starter.

Anyway, Gary stated they are not done trying to get something done before the end of 2019 per Doug Parkers statements last week. Tenative dates for continued talks are being set for mid January. That's about it.

I have four words to this long post.
SEE YOU NEXT YEAR.

 

[dfw gen]

I have four words to this long post.
SEE YOU NEXT YEAR.

I like the " we still may get it done by the end of the year" classic. Just classic. We are not even in their rear view mirror as they leave for the rest of the year.

 

[robbedagain]

Kev, Wanting to replace theTWU with AMFA has NEVER been been a put down of the men & women who work the ramp or stores or any other job at AA. It has been getting a different bargaining unit to represent the Maintenance & Related group. Many ramp workers feel that if we depart it will hurt them. So they want us to stay. We feel by doing that it hurts us. The days of the strength in numbers is over. The TWU has forever rolled over and the IAM was at one time strong but as all the carriers went by the wayside the IAM's power did as well. Unions don't even respect others picket lines. NWA was a perfect example.. At Eastern all were together in the fight. The railway labor act has taken self help away, in the airline biz with regards to the Big carriers. Affecting US economy has been the reason. For you to say we or anyone is disrespecting the other work groups is FALSE.

As a ramper myself. I know few including myself who believe MTR wld be better off in a C C union like AMFA. Others are young n some well u cant change em type. Good luck in your quest n hope you all succeed

 

[AANOTOK]

Vortilon,
I know you're just passing on what Gary said, so understand this isn't directed at you. But Gary is indeed a power hungry liar.
Failed to land a management job, so there is no doubt he holds a vendetta. I'm not saying I believe Tim's fairies either, but Gary not only has an axe to grind, but now he also draws a nice paycheck and pretty pension. Yep, he is looking out for the members...