American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

Keep an eye on Southwest.

Their litigation on the job action hasn't gone away and it seems the airline is playing hardball despite the sides trying to reach an out of court settlement.

The issues at AA seem to be running on parallel tracks.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

I know some of the big boys at AMFA and from what I heard, after september 1st its back to court but arent going back to court until next year?
Management has 2 suits against AMFA i guess, while AMFA has 1 against management.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It's not a secret playbook. Been used over and over and that's why it's so frustrating the Association just walked right into it.

The Atlas pilots and the Teamsters are facing the same basic issue. Their wrinkle is that their job action injunction was also reaffirmed by an appeals court. They may soon be forced into having their contract decided in an arbitration.

i think these unions all screwed themselves.
Wasnt it said on this page that the wn path was the way to go? And although I personally like and respect Charlie Brown, i think his comments here laughing at a possible court order showed that our leadership must have received horrible advice.
And i keep telling people that there isnt going to be an impasse, even if the company wants one, because this NMB has refused any notion of impasses since Trump, in all similar cases including railways. It has forced the iam into binding arbitration last year.
At the same time, although its only going to be ice, you have been 100% correct that a September contempt order will most likely bring a proposal to us. I think we disagree on that process as you seem to suggest it will be a TA, but I have suggested not a TA, just a proposal to vote on.
Samuelson already said his name isnt going on it (jetnet proposal which he called crap).

 

[dfw gen]

It's not a secret playbook. Been used over and over and that's why it's so frustrating the Association just walked right into it.

The Atlas pilots and the Teamsters are facing the same basic issue. Their wrinkle is that their job action injunction was also reaffirmed by an appeals court. They may soon be forced into having their contract decided in an arbitration.

so are you saying that the appeals court in LA has reaffirmed the injunction against the association?

 

[NYer]

so are you saying that the appeals court in LA has reaffirmed the injunction against the association?

Don't see how your read that, but the appeal by the Association hasn't been heard.

With that said, the probability is high they will have the same outcome and the injunction will be reaffirmed.

 

[NYer]

i think these unions all screwed themselves.
Wasnt it said on this page that the wn path was the way to go? And although I personally like and respect Charlie Brown, i think his comments here laughing at a possible court order showed that our leadership must have received horrible advice.
And i keep telling people that there isnt going to be an impasse, even if the company wants one, because this NMB has refused any notion of impasses since Trump, in all similar cases including railways. It has forced the iam into binding arbitration last year.
At the same time, although its only going to be ice, you have been 100% correct that a September contempt order will most likely bring a proposal to us. I think we disagree on that process as you seem to suggest it will be a TA, but I have suggested not a TA, just a proposal to vote on.
Samuelson already said his name isnt going on it (jetnet proposal which he called crap).

It was a bad choice to try and use the SWA situation as an example of a job action working. The union and mechanics agreed on a CBA that included foreign outsourcing language while the agreement they voted down didn't include that language.

Obviously, the inclusion of language is bad for the Association.

Now, that argument of the SWA join action being successful really falls on it's face considering they're still facing legal trouble and the airline seems to be looking for something that will help prevent similar actions in the future.

Maybe something like automatic arbitration if an injunction for a job action is imposed in future negotiations.

 

[dfw gen]

Don't see how your read that, but the appeal by the Association hasn't been heard.

With that said, the probability is high they will have the same outcome and the injunction will be reaffirmed.

sorry misread your post on atlas air

 

[1AA]

Appeal, counterappeal, new court filing, appeal that, counter appeal the appeal, submit revision on permanent injunction, appeal that, argue all appeals and injunction, NMB status meeting to discuss appeals and counter appeals.
That should bring us to the year 2021 and the APA will be enjoying their second post BK contract with Delta profit sharing plan. But hey let's save union dues and the unborn while we the current dues paying members with over 30 years of seniority are paying the price.

 

[NYer]

Appeal, counterappeal, new court filing, appeal that, counter appeal the appeal, submit revision on permanent injunction, appeal that, argue all appeals and injunction, NMB status meeting to discuss appeals and counter appeals.
That should bring us to the year 2021 and the APA will be enjoying their second post BK contract with Delta profit sharing plan. But hey let's save union dues and the unborn while we the current dues paying members with over 30 years of seniority are paying the price.

Despite what some representatives might be saying. The court cases will only speed up a JCBA, not slow it down.

They can ignore the lawyers only so long.

 

[1AA]

Despite what done representativa might be saying. The court cases will only speed up a JCBA, not slow it down.

They can ignore the lawyers only so long.

So you say. Trust nothing the association says even in writing.
Question #5, remember that one?

 

[cltrat]

So far the Association’s record in court and mine against my first wife largely mirror.
Even though their appeal likely has some merit, Unions and sympathetic judges seem to be days gone by.
They could have at least filed out west were the judge that always rules against Trump presides.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Despite what done representativa might be saying. The court cases will only speed up a JCBA, not slow it down.

They can ignore the lawyers only so long.

I would hope your right but I think the court cases the company brought is so they can slow the process and take even longer to increase our contracts. I didn’t use to believe that and they wanted a deal done but it would seem they really don’t give a s&#t about us at all and prefer us frustrated and down and our union just keeps helping them out

 

[NYer]

I would hope your right but I think the court cases the company brought is so they can slow the process and take even longer to increase our contracts. I didn’t use to believe that and they wanted a deal done but it would seem they really don’t give a s&#t about us at all and prefer us frustrated and down and our union just keeps helping them out

Quite the opposite. They don't need help slowing things down. If that's what they wanted they'd just keep saying no to everything.

The legal cases are used to increase their advantage in leverage. It forces the unions to agree to things they may not want to agree to voluntarily.

 

[NYer]

So far the Association’s record in court and mine against my first wife largely mirror.
Even though their appeal likely has some merit, Unions and sympathetic judges seem to be days gone by.
They could have at least filed out west were the judge that always rules against Trump presides.

The appeal has no chance.

 

[swamt]

I think the biggest reason no dates have been set is both sides are waiting on court decisions.
The ASS appealed so who knows how long that will take most likely several months.
I see no movement or any new talks till next year.
This group has been sold down the river by this ASS.
The company most defiantly complicated things with their suit.
So what we have is a dysfunctional group that is loosing out on better benefits because the so called adults in the room could not come up with an agreement Instead pointed fingers at each other and we are stuck in neutral for who knows how long.

I would think, if that were the case, (waiting on court decisions) then the asso should have never responded that they look forward to hearing from the NMB the following week for more dates to be set.
Funny, I was going to call for the same time frame you just stated, I too feel more like some time next year.
In total agreement with the rest of your post. Really sorry you guys have to go through all that political BS with all the infighting and indifferences within the asso.
I know a lot of us on here have been complaining about the abortion of an asso., for the mechanics but they are also hurting the other groups just as much if not more. I would think all you guys would be better off with their own unions. Mechanics with their own C&C union, maybe rampers with TWU like they are here, and the IAM can have the other remaining groups. Everyone would be way better off. Screw this asso. and get rid of them.

 

[swamt]

Keep an eye on Southwest.

Their litigation on the job action hasn't gone away and it seems the airline is playing hardball despite the sides trying to reach an out of court settlement.

The issues at AA seem to be running on parallel tracks.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

AA has been playing the exact same play book as SWA has already played to a "T".
It will be extremely hard for the co. to win their suit at SWA. AA? Maybe not so hard since the leader(s) were boasting and threatening a job action to the president of AA on camera, and I believe they even put some in writing. Man you guys really have some smart leaders running this asso. you were all forced into...