American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well maybe not skilled in aircraft maintenance but I would not say there are no skilled workers in Fleet Service.

I happened to work with a carpenter, a master welder, a painter... all those are skilled tradesmen.

I myself had a background in electrical BEFORE I worked for American Airlines.

Plus there were 4 people I can think of off the top of my head that had their A&P license in my shop.

That being said I don't think all workers in Fleet are unskilled, though it would be accurate to say they do not leverage those skills in their current occupation. I would also disagree they are keeping you down. Though I would not disagree if you had said the UNION is leveraging unskilled positions to the detriment of skilled labor.

I do support your goal of a mechanics only UNION if that is what you want.

La Li Lu Le Lo.
Being an intelligent person, I KNOW, you Know these following things;
First, there is strength in numbers (Just ask TWU local 100) !
And I will grant you that AA locals, being spread nationwide, is different than one local in one state only.
However, its not the fault of the TWU, if the members are not unified.
Imagine if COLLECTIVELY, AMT's, Stock clerks, FSC's, Avionics techs all agreed that a company contract was a POS, and Collectively they voted a majority NO, every time the company disrespected the membership by laying a turd on the table, WHAT power would the company have, knowing they risked a NATIONWIDE Strike ? The AMT's don't need another Union. THEY HAVE ONE, but AA knows that they can count on infighting. Imagine if DFW, AFW, TUL, TULE (where the HUGE membership #'s are) voted NO, every single time as BOS/BDL,LGA,JFK,EWR,PHL,DCA, ORD,LAX,SFO,SEA did, then things would be far different today. WHY ? NO INFIGHTING !!!!
This is why local 100 is so successful. Everyone (majority)is on the same page.( motermen, clerks, mechanics, bus drivers, cleaners etc. )
The theory is unbeatable, and I believe you know that !

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Of course there are a lot of skilled rampers there’s one here in Chicago that has his ATP and ferry’s aircraft all over the country, but at AA which is what we are talking about, he is a ramper, and at the local airport he’s the pilot in command. He’s a dad and a pretty good tango dancer, but let’s stick to what we do at AA not what we do outside of AA.

Fair enough.

I still disagree with you that "rampers" are holding you down. It has nothing to do with the rank and file "rampers" and everything to do with how the TWU/Association leverages work groups to maximize dues.

You, like a lot of posters on this forum, need to learn to focus your anger with the precision of a scalpel not wield it like a club.

Just some friendly advice.

Unless of course you truly believe a bunch of clock punching front line "rampers" are conspiring against you.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

La Li Lu Le Lo.
Being an intelligent person, I KNOW, you Know these following things;
First, there is strength in numbers (Just ask TWU local 100) !
And I will grant you that AA locals, being spread nationwide, is different than one local in one state only.
However, its not the fault of the TWU, if the members are not unified.
Imagine if COLLECTIVELY, AMT's, Stock clerks, FSC's, Avionics techs all agreed that a company contract was a POS, and Collectively they voted a majority NO, every time the company disrespected the membership by laying a turd on the table, WHAT power would the company have, knowing they risked a NATIONWIDE Strike ? The AMT's don't need another Union. THEY HAVE ONE, but AA knows that they can count on infighting. Imagine if DFW, AFW, TUL, TULE (where the HUGE membership #'s are) voted NO, every single time as BOS/BDL,LGA,JFK,EWR,PHL,DCA, ORD,LAX,SFO,SEA did, then things would be far different today. WHY ? NO INFIGHTING !!!!
This is why local 100 is so successful. Everyone (majority)is on the same page.( motermen, clerks, mechanics, bus drivers, cleaners etc. )
The theory is unbeatable, and I believe you know that !

I have suggested before that we would be better off getting out of an international multi-employer UNION and having a UNION of ONLY American Airlines employees (all groups) under ONE unified contract. However maintenance in particular is very resistant to that idea.

I will agree with you that the TWU membership is not unified but I feel like TWU international somewhat engineered it that way. I mean looking at it objectively we have all these groups with all these separate contracts..... how could we NOT have friction.

I will give you an example. When I took sick time I got paid 8 hours. Mechanics only got paid 4 hours on the first day. 2 employees working for the same company with different sick policies. Also I believe stores has a totally different vacation accrual policy than Fleet and Mechanics (and more of it). Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.

What sort of UNION allows 2 employees at the same employer to be subjected to two different sick and vacation policies Bears? Beyond that (and I know they did away with it) but what sort of UNION allows an A and B scale for 2 people doing the same work? I myself was subjected to coming in as a JUNIOR Fleet Service Clerk. It's hard to feel unified when I am doing twice the work (and the crap work at that) for less than half the pay.

I believe what your suggesting would only be possible under a unified contract. Unfortunately that is not the reality of the situation. Not only do you have all these different work groups but even the work groups are sub divided (TWU/IAM).

 

[Rogallo]

Especially in the IGM society in which we live today!

 

[swamt]

I believe by the statement they wont budge. At least thats how im reading into it

That about sums it up the way I took it as well. This is more than likely why no dates have been set that following week as so far this second week after status meeting.

 

[dfw gen]

I think you do a pretty good job of it

nyer has at times some good point, the weaasle did too at times. tim ten minute nelson? naw just a tool.

 

[V.O. Reason]

I think the biggest reason no dates have been set is both sides are waiting on court decisions.
The ASS appealed so who knows how long that will take most likely several months.
I see no movement or any new talks till next year.
This group has been sold down the river by this ASS.
The company most defiantly complicated things with their suit.
So what we have is a dysfunctional group that is loosing out on better benefits because the so called adults in the room could not come up with an agreement Instead pointed fingers at each other and we are stuck in neutral for who knows how long.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I have suggested before that we would be better off getting out of an international multi-employer UNION and having a UNION of ONLY American Airlines employees (all groups) under ONE unified contract. However maintenance in particular is very resistant to that idea.

I will agree with you that the TWU membership is not unified but I feel like TWU international somewhat engineered it that way. I mean looking at it objectively we have all these groups with all these separate contracts..... how could we NOT have friction.

I will give you an example. When I took sick time I got paid 8 hours. Mechanics only got paid 4 hours on the first day. 2 employees working for the same company with different sick policies. Also I believe stores has a totally different vacation accrual policy than Fleet and Mechanics (and more of it). Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.

What sort of UNION allows 2 employees at the same employer to be subjected to two different sick and vacation policies Bears? Beyond that (and I know they did away with it) but what sort of UNION allows an A and B scale for 2 people doing the same work? I myself was subjected to coming in as a JUNIOR Fleet Service Clerk. It's hard to feel unified when I am doing twice the work (and the crap work at that) for less than half the pay.

I believe what your suggesting would only be possible under a unified contract. Unfortunately that is not the reality of the situation. Not only do you have all these different work groups but even the work groups are sub divided (TWU/IAM).

I Agree with you La Le Lu Li Lo. I too was a 'C' scaler. ($ 5.77 ph) in 86'.
AA knew EXACTLY what they were doing, by moving HDQ's from NYC, to Fort Worth. Not being critical of any certain part of the USA, but it is a fact, that there is much less Union cohesion in the Southwest, than the Northeast USA !
And those BAST***S @ AA Knew it all to well !

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I Agree with you La Le Lu Li Lo. I too was a 'C' scaler. ($ 5.77 ph) in 86'.
AA knew EXACTLY what they were doing, by moving HDQ's from NYC, to Fort Worth. Not being critical of any certain part of the USA, but it is a fact, that there is much less Union cohesion in the Southwest, than the Northeast USA !
And those BAST***S @ AA Knew it all to well !

I started at $7.00 an hour in 2000.

They were paying building cleaners $6.00 (fact) with a 10 year top out at $9.00 per hour (if memory serves).

I gave up a lot of money to come and work for American Airlines but that is because I saw potential in the job. It was rough being married and working for 7 dollars an hour. That would be $10.43 in today's dollars.

They paid you the equivalent of $13.51 in today's dollars just in case you wanted to know.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1980?amount=1

 

[bigjets]

La Li Lu Le Lo.
Being an intelligent person, I KNOW, you Know these following things;
First, there is strength in numbers (Just ask TWU local 100) !
And I will grant you that AA locals, being spread nationwide, is different than one local in one state only.
However, its not the fault of the TWU, if the members are not unified.
Imagine if COLLECTIVELY, AMT's, Stock clerks, FSC's, Avionics techs all agreed that a company contract was a POS, and Collectively they voted a majority NO, every time the company disrespected the membership by laying a turd on the table, WHAT power would the company have, knowing they risked a NATIONWIDE Strike ? The AMT's don't need another Union. THEY HAVE ONE, but AA knows that they can count on infighting. Imagine if DFW, AFW, TUL, TULE (where the HUGE membership #'s are) voted NO, every single time as BOS/BDL,LGA,JFK,EWR,PHL,DCA, ORD,LAX,SFO,SEA did, then things would be far different today. WHY ? NO INFIGHTING !!!!
This is why local 100 is so successful. Everyone (majority)is on the same page.( motermen, clerks, mechanics, bus drivers, cleaners etc. )
The theory is unbeatable, and I believe you know that !

Doesn’t local 100 deal with local government and not a private corporation?

Aren’t all those different jobs ABOUT the same skill level?

Does local 100 fall under railway labor act? If it does I’m even more baffled by Samuelsons tough guy talk.

Aren’t all those jobs in the same city? We have Tulsa where they can take a 40% pay cut and still have a better standard of living then any line mechanic.


Great “theory” though. In a perfect world we would have been able to vote on our representation, or even have Samuelson accountable to us.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I have suggested before that we would be better off getting out of an international multi-employer UNION and having a UNION of ONLY American Airlines employees (all groups) under ONE unified contract. However maintenance in particular is very resistant to that idea.

I will agree with you that the TWU membership is not unified but I feel like TWU international somewhat engineered it that way. I mean looking at it objectively we have all these groups with all these separate contracts..... how could we NOT have friction.

I will give you an example. When I took sick time I got paid 8 hours. Mechanics only got paid 4 hours on the first day. 2 employees working for the same company with different sick policies. Also I believe stores has a totally different vacation accrual policy than Fleet and Mechanics (and more of it). Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.

What sort of UNION allows 2 employees at the same employer to be subjected to two different sick and vacation policies Bears? Beyond that (and I know they did away with it) but what sort of UNION allows an A and B scale for 2 people doing the same work? I myself was subjected to coming in as a JUNIOR Fleet Service Clerk. It's hard to feel unified when I am doing twice the work (and the crap work at that) for less than half the pay.

I believe what your suggesting would only be possible under a unified contract. Unfortunately that is not the reality of the situation. Not only do you have all these different work groups but even the work groups are sub divided (TWU/IAM).

Stores, ramp, pax service, mx, are all resistent to what the pilots and stews were smart enough to do.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Sorry not buying it their stand alone negotiations and the improvements were a direct payoff for support of the take over. Nothing more nothing less. The raise was for cross utilization. That will enable the company to run two maintenance programs forever and drag out negotiations as long as possible. The airline is functioning well in their eyes or as long as they make money. Reference how long they ran two pilots programs.No more and no less. I will admit regardless of what anyone says or claims the unions had no choice but to take the money. If they didnt they would of got roasted.

Geez, you must have a brain. That was a good comment. But you are a do nothing and only blabb so your comment is wasted.

 

[NYer]

Keep an eye on Southwest.

Their litigation on the job action hasn't gone away and it seems the airline is playing hardball despite the sides trying to reach an out of court settlement.

The issues at AA seem to be running on parallel tracks.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

 

[robbedagain]

Keep an eye on Southwest.

Their litigation on the job action hasn't gone away and it seems the airline is playing hardball despite the sides trying to reach an out of court settlement.

The issues at AA seem to be running on parallel tracks.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

Swamt has long said AA has mirrored WN playbook. Probably share same lawyers which wouldn't shock me nor surprise me

 

[NYer]

Swamt has long said AA has mirrored WN playbook. Probably share same lawyers which wouldn't shock me nor surprise me

It's not a secret playbook. Been used over and over and that's why it's so frustrating the Association just walked right into it.

The Atlas pilots and the Teamsters are facing the same basic issue. Their wrinkle is that their job action injunction was also reaffirmed by an appeals court. They may soon be forced into having their contract decided in an arbitration.