American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Talos]

AANOTOK,

I posted long ago after some Association "progress" report of outstanding the "minor issues" did not strike me as being small details, and questioned what has been discussed for the past couple of years. Not to mention, having meetings being scheduled so infrequently as to suggest not much interest or common ground to find a resolution by one or both sides. I think it was Tim who posted several months ago of Section 6 being a real possibility which was very much contrary to being so "close" to a rumored T.A. I think in many ways we have been mislead, and while it is easy to it being say due to internet message board(s) and our own expectations, I cannot ignore much of it being from the Association's official pronouncements. I could speculate as to motive understanding as no one wants to appear to be ineffective or incompetent, especially as it may call into question their raison d'etre, but I am harboring doubts as to the Association's ability to negotiate a deal.

I believe we are on the precipice of a negotiation crisis, if not already over the edge sliding into Section 6. I concur with your prediction of Management using this meeting as a de facto "last-best-final-offer" with some enhancements to the initial offer, but I am concerned the Association will not submit a reasonable comprehensive counter-proposal providing material for both discussion and direction. Just saying, "No" and taking to social media to attack the Company proposals will not open the already all-too-infrequent dialogue. My thinking will be the Company will warn of the potential consequences of Section 6, and push for a vote knowing that while both FSCs and MXs exit together with their respective T.A.'s, each work group will vote separately. Should one group pass a T.A., then that's one less group to focus upon otherwise we fall into the void of Section 6.

This Association took quite some time to get ready to negotiate and they had a great economic situation to use. There was never any real urgency shown. Add to that the fact that the company had to give us the money which made the Association look bad. It's easy to see how many many members were wondering if we had stumble bums handling things. I think many people harbor doubts Jester, with the view that the Association is the root of the problem.

 

[robbedagain]

rez does the Assoc still have leverage if it goes into a long drawn out sect 6 also I would imagine the profits would help in the talks too

 

[AANOTOK]

C’mon W, when one of us holds the same opinion that P.Rez just offered, the video, meme, and gif box is loaded and fired. Along with your condescending remarks. Even when NYer called you out on your prediction (solid prediction) at that, even label folks as doom and gloom, you very professionally put your spin on it. Crow really isn’t that bad if you smother it in BBQ sauce. Maybe try it instead of always having to be King of the Forum. Just because we are periodically right and don’t agree with you doesn’t make us trolls, company peeps or bad people. I have eaten a ton of Crow in my life and will eat much more. The difference between you and I is I admit it and don’t revert to songs, cartoons or words not in the dictionary to deflect it.

 

[AANOTOK]

rez does the Assoc still have leverage if it goes into a long drawn out sect 6 also I would imagine the profits would help in the talks too

I’m my opinion, I don’t see any leverage in Sec 6. I don’t see any right now to be honest. What are we doing now that would force the company to rethink their position?

 

[bob@las-AA]

I’m my opinion, I don’t see any leverage in Sec 6. I don’t see any right now to be honest. What are we doing now that would force the company to rethink their position?

Dam you're good.

 

[WeAAsles]

C’mon W, when one of us holds the same opinion that P.Rez just offered, the video, meme, and gif box is loaded and fired. Along with your condescending remarks. Even when NYer called you out on your prediction (solid prediction) at that, even label folks as doom and gloom, you very professionally put your spin on it. Crow really isn’t that bad if you smother it in BBQ sauce. Maybe try it instead of always having to be King of the Forum. Just because we are periodically right and don’t agree with you doesn’t make us trolls, company peeps or bad people. I have eaten a ton of Crow in my life and will eat much more. The difference between you and I is I admit it and don’t revert to songs, cartoons or words not in the dictionary to deflect it.

I think I’ve admitted multiple times that I thought it would take 6 Months. You should go back and find those comments.

I find it amusing that my continually needing to admit I was WRONG seems to be so desperately needed here.

And if Rez is right, so what. With that last offer I could care less. Let it take many more years then. I’m not going anywhere.

 

[conehead777]

Update

Call it what you want, but these negotiations were derailed when the company offered a cost neutral/negative contract. The raises would fall behind UA this December and stay behind UA for the duration. They want a minimum of 5000 jobs which is 17% of the combined membership. The 401k would end up putting money back in the companies pockets. The profit sharing is behind Delta and United, the insurance is a negative and hundreds may be bumped down to part time or have to move to hold FT.

We are definitely headed to section 6 IMO. I do not see any reconciliation at this point. I hope I'm wrong but watching Parker and Isom leads me to believe we are headed for a long, drawn out, contentious section 6.

P. Rez

Well if we didn’t have the two weakest unions we could get the things we ask for. .the mechanics needs to get there on independent union and fleet service needs to get there own independent union. The pilots and flight attendants do and and they seem to do better then these industrial unions. I’m sick of some transit worker in New York that dose not no **** about aviation running our international, mechanics fleet service clerks we have different working conditions, we each need our on say . The iam and twu need to take a play from the pilots union get press they got press that they did not have confidence in Parker not long after that pilots got a raise after there contract was ratified. Why want these two sorry pos union start fighting dirty in the press . The pilots and flight attendant]s do that very well again independent unions. After 33 years of the twu I’m sick of the bull ****. Were the only union that had retires sue for. Eguity im willing to bet pilots and flight attendants had language in there contract. That’s why we need lawyers in negotiations. I bet the pilots and flight attendants knows what’s going on in there contract talks not some bullshit we reached a Ta on this item. . But what the Ta was. Why can you pos in charge do what the members want we want info we want to know what the association proposel are.. we want to know the Ta language stop making excuses, you guys can get fired if enough people get pissed off and sign cards. So you nc members need to start doing your job no more excuses. No more bullshit answer to our questions. We the due paying members are mad as hell and we ain’t going to take it any more, I know I’m not the only fed up twu member it’s been like this my whole 33 years. And I for one am sick of it. Mechanics let’s start a card drive. Fleet service you guys should start a card drive for y’all son union allso.

 

[bob@las-AA]

C’mon W, when one of us holds the same opinion that P.Rez just offered, the video, meme, and gif box is loaded and fired. Along with your condescending remarks. Even when NYer called you out on your prediction (solid prediction) at that, even label folks as doom and gloom, you very professionally put your spin on it. Crow really isn’t that bad if you smother it in BBQ sauce. Maybe try it instead of always having to be King of the Forum. Just because we are periodically right and don’t agree with you doesn’t make us trolls, company peeps or bad people. I have eaten a ton of Crow in my life and will eat much more. The difference between you and I is I admit it and don’t revert to songs, cartoons or words not in the dictionary to deflect it.

Yep the weez is a POS like that, he can't take that big long pull off of his own medicine bottle.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well if we didn’t have the two weakest unions we could get the things we ask for. .the mechanics needs to get there on independent union and fleet service needs to get there own independent union. The pilots and flight attendants do and and they seem to do better then these industrial unions. I’m sick of some transit worker in New York that dose not no **** about aviation running our international, mechanics fleet service clerks we have different working conditions, we each need our on say . The iam and twu need to take a play from the pilots union get press they got press that they did not have confidence in Parker not long after that pilots got a raise after there contract was ratified. Why want these two sorry pos union start fighting dirty in the press . The pilots and flight attendant]s do that very well again independent unions. After 33 years of the twu I’m sick of the bull ****. Were the only union that had retires sue for. Eguity im willing to bet pilots and flight attendants had language in there contract. That’s why we need lawyers in negotiations. I bet the pilots and flight attendants knows what’s going on in there contract talks not some bullshit we reached a Ta on this item. . But what the Ta was. Why can you pos in charge do what the members want we want info we want to know what the association proposel are.. we want to know the Ta language stop making excuses, you guys can get fired if enough people get pissed off and sign cards. So you nc members need to start doing your job no more excuses. No more bullshit answer to our questions. We the due paying members are mad as hell and we ain’t going to take it any more, I know I’m not the only fed up twu member it’s been like this my whole 33 years. And I for one am sick of it. Mechanics let’s start a card drive. Fleet service you guys should start a card drive for y’all son union allso.

You forgot to mention AMFA at SWA. 5 and half years (And counting)

Next?

 

[WeAAsles]

Yep the weez is a POS like that, he can't take that big long pull off of his own medicine bottle.

Widdle no time Bobby throwing a temper tantrum not going to be able to get $Money$?

Ha Ha.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well now just because I was asked and I finished performing my job to have the time. I was asked for a nice video, meme or gif box and a snarky condescending remark. For all you good little boys and girls here it is.

Who cuffed Sito? Did I cuff Sito? This could be over if Sito hadn’t been cuffed. All that misplaced rage. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. Where’s Sito? Sito, Sito, Sito. Cuffed until April 2019.

And for all you greedy little imps “Under Pressure”

 

[bob@las-AA]

 

[Racer X]

If Sito doesn't counter the airline offer {As Sito said the "Take it or leave it"] then look for the company to play SEVERE hardball. I've been told by fly that the company is NOT the least interested in negotiating against it's last offer. In other words, the Association has to respond and counter. Otherwise, gloves come off according to Fly. This happened last year when Sito claimed he threw the company July offer in the trashcan where it belonged (TWU convention speech) but he was forced to take it out of the trash and counter, which he did, and things moved forward. But were then blocked by the 'new election' announcement. Now that we are in a similar situation where Sito's election was NOT certified and it appears a date of April 2019 is likely (Could be sooner), the is stalling again.

So, NYer, I think 3 months is being pretty hopeful. Sito and Alex would rather refuse to make the right calls and instead copy and paste love letters blasting Johnson. Nothing is accomplished from their continue name calling.

This goose is cooked and it will be section 6 and it will be a more aggressive company, according to Fly. It may be more than just the 12 LGA 170 flights and the 25 CLT catering flights next time. Could be half of PHL if the company has had enough of Sito babble and it wishes to just make the 170 work go away in to the hands of envoy or a contractor.
TWU needs to be listening as well. It has 5 stations on the line.

All should be taken as third hand hearsay and/or for entertainment value only.

Half of Phl? Stop. You know the scop

Update

Call it what you want, but these negotiations were derailed when the company offered a cost neutral/negative contract. The raises would fall behind UA this December and stay behind UA for the duration. They want a minimum of 5000 jobs which is 17% of the combined membership. The 401k would end up putting money back in the companies pockets. The profit sharing is behind Delta and United, the insurance is a negative and hundreds may be bumped down to part time or have to move to hold FT.

We are definitely headed to section 6 IMO. I do not see any reconciliation at this point. I hope I'm wrong but watching Parker and Isom leads me to believe we are headed for a long, drawn out, contentious section 6.

P. Rez

right on Prez

 

[WeAAsles]

You ain’t stuck Bob. You top out next year and start making those Bucu Bucks. $65,000 for 40 a week. They’ll call you the King of the Mechanical Bulls there in Tejas.

 

[title 2]

Never said negotiations to be easy, but rather my commentary would be based upon the credibility of Association. How long have we been told that there are some "minor issues" (i.e. pay, retirement, health insurance, etc. which are the lion's share of the cost structure), and a deal was around the corner for the last few years? So the Company made public it's (questionable) offer, and the Association just cried about it being unacceptable? No counter offers, no explanations, no insights, no serious calls for negotiations-- Big Nothing Burger. Meanwhile negotiation schedules have been akin to my car's maintenance schedule, as no one appears to be in a hurry.

If you find this pace and lack of action to be acceptable, then fine, but I suspect few would agree with you.

I find this association and this management both totally and completely useless and unacceptable