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American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

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bob, don't worry about fuel..we're talking wages, salaries & benefits as a percentage of revenues taken in.

for 2017, aa raked in $42.207 billion in revenue. aa spent $11.816 billion on wages/salaries/benefits. that comes to 27.9% of revenues.

southwest example..2017, southwest made $21.171 billion in revenue. southwest spent $7.319 billion on wages/salaries/benefits. that comes to spending around 35% of revenues.

ua was just under 30% for 2017. $37.736 billion in revenues, $11.045 billion on wages/benefits/salaries. around 29.5%.

at 2017 dl, PS ($1.065 billion) is detached from wages ($10.436 billion). 'passenger service' was pegged at $1.067 billion. add them together it's $12.568 billion. dl's revenues came in at $41.244 billion. that comes to apprx. 31% of revenues.

conclusion? aa is stingy. stingy, stingy.
That's not what the numbers say, for mainline expenditures, 11816 / 31603 = 37.38% 11816 billion in mainline wages and total MAINLINE expenditures are 31603. And 37.38% was MAINLINE labor. In face it's higher than all other airlines. Humm stingy?... don't think so.
 
That's not what the numbers say, for mainline expenditures, 11816 / 31603 = 37.38% 11816 billion in mainline wages and total MAINLINE expenditures are 31603. And 37.38% was MAINLINE labor. In face it's higher than all other airlines. Humm stingy?... don't think so.

bob, the price of jet fuel and a fresh coat of paint in the admiral's club is not part of 'wages/salaries/benefits'.

aa spends apprx. $800 million more per year on labor costs than ua, because we have more employees.

i'm talking a simple point, the percentage of revenue(s) that goes to 'wages/salaries/benefits'.

percentage wise, the world's largest airline is behind the usa's other top 4 airlines. that is my point. the point that aa is behind the curve, in terms of overall compensation.
 
If Sito doesn't counter the airline offer {As Sito said the "Take it or leave it"] then look for the company to play SEVERE hardball. I've been told by fly that the company is NOT the least interested in negotiating against it's last offer. In other words, the Association has to respond and counter. Otherwise, gloves come off according to Fly. This happened last year when Sito claimed he threw the company July offer in the trashcan where it belonged (TWU convention speech) but he was forced to take it out of the trash and counter, which he did, and things moved forward. But were then blocked by the 'new election' announcement. Now that we are in a similar situation where Sito's election was NOT certified and it appears a date of April 2019 is likely (Could be sooner), the is stalling again.

So, NYer, I think 3 months is being pretty hopeful. Sito and Alex would rather refuse to make the right calls and instead copy and paste love letters blasting Johnson. Nothing is accomplished from their continue name calling.

This goose is cooked and it will be section 6 and it will be a more aggressive company, according to Fly. It may be more than just the 12 LGA 170 flights and the 25 CLT catering flights next time. Could be half of PHL if the company has had enough of Sito babble and it wishes to just make the 170 work go away in to the hands of envoy or a contractor.
TWU needs to be listening as well. It has 5 stations on the line.

All should be taken as third hand hearsay and/or for entertainment value only.

sounds like johnsen himself, wrote that. lots of threats and multi-millionaires come off sounding like 13 y/o kids because they didn't get picked for the baseball team.

so, if the union made any kind of a threat, aa would scream bloody murder to a fed judge; 'job action'?

what can aa say next? "if you don't accept this offer, we're going to have 1 man gate crews"??

ok, it's your airline.
 
It's certainly possible for nothing to happen until Section 6 but, to me, it seems the airline is preparing itself for one last effort to get something before Section 6.

Ultimately, the decision would be whether to put it out or not.
I hope this is true. This post kind of goes right in line with the new dates set to meet between the union and co.

Can you elaborate a little? Is this a nego. meeting? Or just a meeting to discuss issues still open? The update indicates that not all persons will be attending, so curious if anything will really get done. Can you explain in more detail how these meetings will go?
I hope the company realized that their offer was an insult and NOT industry leading as promised. Good luck in attaining a real T/A...
 
In my woeful opinion, AA is meeting to let them know what to expect in section 6 if they don't put something out for a vote.
Noted was "seeking dates to discuss minor issues". Well, scope, retirement, insurance are not minor issues obviously and I don't think that was AA's exact request. Not sure who is attending the meeting, but I'm gonna say it's the take it or leave it NYer has mentioned and in no uncertain terms this what to expect moving forward. Hell, I don't know, AA might be coming in with everything the Association said they needed to put it out for a vote. But I'm thinking the odds are against it. We will see June 11th and 12th...
 
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In my woeful opinion, AA is meeting to let them know what to expect in section 6 if they don't put something out for a vote.
Noted was "seeking dates to discuss minor issues". Well, scope, retirement, insurance are not minor issues obviously and I don't think that was AA's exact request. Not sure who is attending the meeting, but I'm gonna say it's the take it or leave it NYer has mentioned and in no uncertain terms this what to expect moving forward. Hell, I don't know, AA might be coming in with everything the Association said they needed to put it out for a vote. But I'm thinking the odds are against it. We will see June 11th and 12th...
imo there will be great pain. the new hires and low hanging fruit is goin to feel pain. All because of the iam pension, which isnt worth it.
 
In my woeful opinion, AA is meeting to let them know what to expect in section 6 if they don't put something out for a vote.
Noted was "seeking dates to discuss minor issues". Well, scope, retirement, insurance are not minor issues obviously and I don't think that was AA's exact request. Not sure who is attending the meeting, but I'm gonna say it's the take it or leave it NYer has mentioned and in no uncertain terms this what to expect moving forward. Hell, I don't know, AA might be coming in with everything the Association said they needed to put it out for a vote. But I'm thinking the odds are against it. We will see June 11th and 12th...

AANOTOK,

I posted long ago after some Association "progress" report of outstanding the "minor issues" did not strike me as being small details, and questioned what has been discussed for the past couple of years. Not to mention, having meetings being scheduled so infrequently as to suggest not much interest or common ground to find a resolution by one or both sides. I think it was Tim who posted several months ago of Section 6 being a real possibility which was very much contrary to being so "close" to a rumored T.A. I think in many ways we have been mislead, and while it is easy to it being say due to internet message board(s) and our own expectations, I cannot ignore much of it being from the Association's official pronouncements. I could speculate as to motive understanding as no one wants to appear to be ineffective or incompetent, especially as it may call into question their raison d'etre, but I am harboring doubts as to the Association's ability to negotiate a deal.

I believe we are on the precipice of a negotiation crisis, if not already over the edge sliding into Section 6. I concur with your prediction of Management using this meeting as a de facto "last-best-final-offer" with some enhancements to the initial offer, but I am concerned the Association will not submit a reasonable comprehensive counter-proposal providing material for both discussion and direction. Just saying, "No" and taking to social media to attack the Company proposals will not open the already all-too-infrequent dialogue. My thinking will be the Company will warn of the potential consequences of Section 6, and push for a vote knowing that while both FSCs and MXs exit together with their respective T.A.'s, each work group will vote separately. Should one group pass a T.A., then that's one less group to focus upon otherwise we fall into the void of Section 6.
 
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AANOTOK,

I posted long ago after some Association "progress" report of outstanding the "minor issues" did not strike me as being small details, and questioned what has been discussed for the past couple of years. Not to mention, having meetings being scheduled so infrequently as to suggest not much interest or common ground to find a resolution by one or both sides. I think it was Tim who posted several months ago of Section 6 being a real possibility which was very much contrary to being so "close" to a rumored T.A. I think in many ways we have been mislead, and while it is easy to it being say due to internet message board(s) and our own expectations, I cannot ignore much of it being from the Association's official pronouncements. I could speculate as to motive understanding as no one wants to appear to be ineffective or incompetent, especially as it may call into question their raison d'etre, but I am harboring doubts as to the Association's ability to negotiate a deal.

I believe we are on the precipice of a negotiation crisis, if not already over the edge sliding into Section 6. I concur with your prediction of Management using this meeting as a de facto "last-best-final-offer" with some enhancements to the initial offer, but I am concerned the Association will not provide a reasonable comprehensive counter-proposal providing material for both discussion and direction. Just saying, "No" and taking to social media to attack the Company proposals will not open the already all-too-infrequent dialogue. My thinking will be the Company will warn of the potential consequences of Section 6, and push for a vote knowing that while both FSCs and MXs exit together with their respective T.A.'s, each work group will vote separately. Should one group pass a T.A., then that's one less group to focus upon otherwise we fall into the void of Section 6.


Uh if the Company says they are giving the Association a “FINAL” offer before Section 6 is triggered that means they’re NOT going to accept any counter offers.

And if they use the phrase “last-best-final-offer” I think even more so they would be saying that’s it guys.
 
AANOTOK, I believe we are on the precipice of a negotiation crisis, if not already over the edge sliding into Section 6. I concur with your prediction of Management using this meeting as a de facto "last-best-final-offer" with some enhancements to the initial offer, but I am concerned the Association will not submit a reasonable comprehensive counter-proposal providing material for both discussion and direction. Just saying, "No" and taking to social media to attack the Company proposals will not open the already all-too-infrequent dialogue. My thinking will be the Company will warn of the potential consequences of Section 6, and push for a vote knowing that while both FSCs and MXs exit together with their respective T.A.'s, each work group will vote separately. Should one group pass a T.A., then that's one less group to focus upon otherwise we fall into the void of Section 6.

It isn't like this path wasn't predictable.

Unfortunately, there was a lot of wasted time with the naysayers who believe this could or would never happen. Did we let opportunities pass us by because of that opaque view?
 
Uh if the Company says they are giving the Association a “FINAL” offer before Section 6 is triggered that means they’re NOT going to accept any counter offers.

And if they use the phrase “last-best-final-offer” I think even more so they would be saying that’s it guys.

If the Association hasn't put forth a comprehensive offer, then the option is still possible after the "last-best-final-offer" because as others have rightfully pointed-out, then Company is negotiating against itself. Offers and counter offers are part of the give-and-take, but they need to be substantive proposals. "Last-Best-Final" offers only have meaning when there has been nothing else to discuss.
 
In my woeful opinion, AA is meeting to let them know what to expect in section 6 if they don't put something out for a vote.
Noted was "seeking dates to discuss minor issues". Well, scope, retirement, insurance are not minor issues obviously and I don't think that was AA's exact request. Not sure who is attending the meeting, but I'm gonna say it's the take it or leave it NYer has mentioned and in no uncertain terms this what to expect moving forward. Hell, I don't know, AA might be coming in with everything the Association said they needed to put it out for a vote. But I'm thinking the odds are against it. We will see June 11th and 12th...

I have to think you're right.
 
If the Association hasn't put forth a comprehensive offer, then the option is still possible after the "last-best-final-offer" because as others have rightfully pointed-out, then Company is negotiating against itself. Offers and counter offers are part of the give-and-take, but they need to be substantive proposals. "Last-Best-Final" offers only have meaning when there has been nothing else to discuss.


The Association gave their comprehensive proposal back in 2015. That is still the comprehensive proposal as it stands and if the Company again says this is their “FINAL” offer, then that by its very definition means they will not entertain any further movement.
 
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