American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

the association doesnt have to bargain at all unless you are talking about a few years down the road within section 6? I also suspect i may disagree with you about good faith bargaining within section 6 as its mostly political. Unless an airline claims "final offer" I havent seen any cases that a mediator declared an impass without at least a few years since the openers. And we are 4 months from openers.
In reality, we did hit some dealbreakers. Sito and Alex letter demanding the iam pension, and the company insistence to move the health plan.
Regardless, i doubt the company comes back to the table until Alex and Sito stop their repeative tantrums about Johnson. There will be a better package presented from what i heard but if it goes in section 6 then the offer will be less, alot less..

In Section 6, dealing in good faith means each side needs to move towards the other. An eternal "no," doesn't cut it in that environment. As the airline industry stands today, no major airline will ever be declared at an impasse to trigger a self-help release.

If we go into Section 6 in September with DL and UA passing us in wages plus the uncertainty in the TWU Scope threshold the pressure would mount quickly for the Fleet group.

 

[NYer]

Section 6 as an association or Section 6 with the TWU and IAM separately?

As a bargaining representative for LAA, the TWU and the IAM no longer exist. Section 6 would be as an Association and most likely as three separate groups. (Fleet, Maintenance, Stores).

 

[WeAAsles]

In Section 6, dealing in good faith means each side needs to move towards the other. An eternal "no," doesn't cut it in that environment. As the airline industry stands today, no major airline will ever be declared at an impasse to trigger a self-help release.

If we go into Section 6 in September with DL and UA passing us in wages plus the uncertainty in the TWU Scope threshold the pressure would mount quickly for the Fleet group.

Parker was just in SJU and was showed a FB posting where someone claimed the Station would be closed if we went into Section 6. Parker stated emphatically that SJU would not be closed.

Now you can believe him in that area or not it’s up to you.

Again do you seriously believe the Company would want that sort of bad blood (Bad Faith) by closing any of those Stations on the possible chopping block and do you think the fate of a few hundred individuals is going to persuade the Association to capitulate to an unacceptable deal for 18,000 Ramp Agents? I highly doubt it.

The small rise in wages at DL and UAL would apply some small pressure yes.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW it’s not at the end of the day about what the Association will accept to bring back to the Membership for a vote, it’s about will the Membership find it acceptable to pass?

And if the Association puts anything out for a vote because of “pressure” from the NMB if there is no endorsement to pass it’s going to just make it that much more difficult.

And American Airlines is not in any sort of distressed financial position today that any of us need to have concerns we should pass a substandard deal. Those days are in the rear view.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I can see how you reached your initial conclusion because of the way it was written.

Thank you I'm still skeptical, that's real money going into the 401K, it would benefit a lot of clerks who are not at retirement age yet.

 

[NYer]

Thank you I'm still skeptical, that's real money going into the 401K, it would benefit a lot of clerks who are not at retirement age yet.

Sure, it would be beneficial to almost everyone on the seniority ladder.

 

[swamt]

This is from a few days ago during my sabbatical from the boards but I think this is something interesting to share.

You can tell for an absolute certainty reading this letter that the TWU and IAM are in the middle of total and complete full on WAR right now.

View attachment 12808

I tried warning you guys this was coming the day they announced the association.
And I quote, there will be too much inner fighting between who has control and who does not between the two unions that nothing will ever get done. Can you hear me now???

 

[swamt]

Because supposed they never “formally” offered a proposal on the last go round and they have not extended a hand to continue talks to even accept a counter proposal.

Of course the Company is saying one thing and the people who Represent us are saying something else.

That's exactly how it has played out for us too. I am telling you guys are getting played just like we did, play by play.

The union won’t counter until the company actually puts out a counter offer to the Unions proposal. If you do not get a counter from the company and you make another proposal all you are doing in essence is negotiating against yourself.

Bingo!!!

Wouldn’t surprise me

Me neither. At this point I kinda expect it. I also think at this point AA will drag this out to the point of fuel reaching high prices and claim fuel is too high to offer anymore money ect...

 

[swamt]

So instead of feverishly working to get a JCBA, both sides are working feverishly at not getting one done.
Sit and wait...

Yup. The company benefits by saving millions. The IAM benefits by keeping what they have longer and since they are in control of this asso. will do as they please. The TWU will just keep getting the shaft deeper and deeper and the membership will still do nothing about it, just keep taking it and taking it. Thank you sir, may I have another???

 

[swamt]

I was just making the point that this could still take much longer than many of us including myself anticipated.

Time for certain individuals to maybe take a deep breath and strap themselves in?

Now you are starting to get it weez...

 

[WeAAsles]

That's exactly how it has played out for us too. I am telling you guys are getting played just like we did, play by play.


Bingo!!!


Me neither. At this point I kinda expect it. I also think at this point AA will drag this out to the point of fuel reaching high prices and claim fuel is too high to offer anymore money ect...

To be honest at least for me. A few years back now I was trying to figure out where I might be on wages by this year 2018. My calculations came out to around $27 and change. Right now I’m .19 cents under $31. So I’m about $3.50 per hour higher than what I figured.

What I’m saying is I can wait some for a better offer than the “tester” online offer the Company put out. I firmly believe that was a test to see how they need to tailor their real offer before we go into Section 6 if it’s not accepted?

We’ll see?

 

[WeAAsles]

Yup. The company benefits by saving millions. The IAM benefits by keeping what they have longer and since they are in control of this asso. will do as they please. The TWU will just keep getting the shaft deeper and deeper and the membership will still do nothing about it, just keep taking it and taking it. Thank you sir, may I have another???

The IAM is not in control of the Association. Right now it’s the TWU that’s the Association chair. But technically how I read the Association contract for Negotiations both sides have to be in equal agreement to pass. So there is no authority that can override the other.

 

[swamt]

Section 6 as an association or Section 6 with the TWU and IAM separately?

Can't believe you have to ask that. Answered by wings and NY'er.

Never understood the argument PS over increased wages...still don’t!

Agreed.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Not so sure now we could even get the Company to agree to keep their Profit Sharing Bonus scheme in exchange for a higher offering on wages? Early on that was the Parker line why we weren’t being given PS and again 7% above was his offer.

But other workgroups cried that they wanted it and here we are today. (Less individual value pay)

Also as a workgroup if we could negotiate to dump PS for higher wages and it was agreed to can we remember we did it in the future and it was a choice we made or will we forget and start complaining that “Everyone else gets PS, the Company hates us”???

no one wants to look hypocritical...but at his stage, there is no shame.

pilots complain about it, going straight to the media with facts and figures. the company talks out of both sides of it's mouth in regards to us.

i have no problem signing it off, but the company has to pay me a premium over dl/ua/southwest, and i'm not talking about .24 cents/hr or even $2.00/hr more.

throw in the insurance issue and if the company gets that, the $36.50/hr TOS is a bargain for the company.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Never understood the argument PS over increased wages...still don’t!

to me, there is no argument.

aa doesn't want to widen the PS parameters.

aa doesn't want to increase our wages.

what is the argument??