All Hot Meals Gone Domestically

[700UW]

The employees have ponied up to the company to save it, management on the other hand just keeps taking the employees and the passengers for granted.

Lets two bankruptcies in two years, means less service and the passengers want lower fares, fuel costs are rising and yet you dont want to pay more for you tickets. If you want better service you have to be willing to pay for it.

So stop blaming the FAs they just follow orders.

 

[JS]

The employees have ponied up to the company to save it, management on the other hand just keeps taking the employees and the passengers for granted.

Lets two bankruptcies in two years, means less service and the passengers want lower fares, fuel costs are rising and yet you dont want to pay more for you tickets.  If you want better service you have to be willing to pay for it.

So stop blaming the FAs they just follow orders.

[post="246908"][/post]​

(not just flight attendants, this goes for all employees)

Are they ordered to whine about their pay cuts in front of paying passengers? Because that is exactly what they do. Bitching is virtually guaranteed while service is not.

 

[700UW]

Let see it is human nature to discuss things at work while with your coworkers.

I guess you have not experienced three paycuts, loss of your retirement, 20,000+ of your coworkers being laid-off, loss of vacation, sick time, and numerous other things. Paying more for insurance while working more and making less.

Let see everyone is suppose to be happy 100% of the time when they do not know how they are going to pay the mortgage or put food on their table and then have money to retire on.

Here is a simple solution to solve your "crisis", go fly on another airline if you do not like the service US offers and your malcontent for its employees.

 

[mweiss]

Let see it is human nature to discuss things at work while with your coworkers.

There is a time and a place for such things. During face time with your customers is not one such time or place.

I guess you have not experienced three paycuts, loss of your retirement, 20,000+ of your coworkers being laid-off, loss of vacation, sick time, and numerous other things. Paying more for insurance while working more and making less.

I guess it's not relevant to the question of what you should be providing your customers if you wish to keep having them as customers, paying your wages.

Let see everyone is suppose to be happy 100% of the time

No, but when in a customer-facing job one is supposed to suppress these things until one is no longer facing the customer.

Here is a simple solution to solve your "crisis", go fly on another airline if you do not like the service US offers and your malcontent for its employees.

[post="246916"][/post]​

Unlike JS, many people do exactly that, while not even telling you. Did you hear how excited residents of PHL and PIT were to hear that WN was coming to their fair cities? Do you think it's because they are so in love with US that they can't bear to see US disappear?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Michael,

"HOU-AUS is 150 miles. When you take into account departure and arrival patterns, the difference of 22 miles is not significant."

Well, actually 152 miles according to WebFlyer. That's about 3.5 minutes, if one assumes that the time spend below 10,000 ft is the same for each of these routes (is it???).

So 3 F/A's have that extra 3.5 minutes to do what 2 F/A's are "supposed" to do on the CLT-RDU leg?

Where do you draw the line on what's significant? If going from 152 down to 128 is not significant, how about from 128 down to 110? From 110 down to 100? They're each even less significant.

Jim

ps - Oh, thanks for proving my point that WN doesn't serve on legs as short as CLT-RDU.

ps 2 - Seems like there used to be service guidelines that considered the number of passengers as well as length of flight (one of the F/A's can correct me if I'm wrong). If I'm correct, management decided that consistancy was more important than service, though....

 

[hp_fa]

I am going to attempt to add some prspective from outside of U. At HP we used to have the mainline fly PHX-TUS, about 110 nm. The FA's did not do any service in the air and stayed in their jumpseats until checking the cabin on descent.

We also do not do service on LAS-ONT, which is 197 nm. On a consistent basis there just is not enough time to stay seated until 10k, do a service and trash pick-up, check the cabin for landing and get into the seats.

I work first class a lot, in fact I prefer it. I like to tailor my product to the passengers needs when, and if, I can. I also would rather be doing something then sitting on the jumpseat. However, as someone else said, our primary job is safety of the aircraft and of the passenegers.

(Gonna sit back and wait for the inevitable comment that my real job is to simply hand out drinks, etc. and we are a truly lazy workforce.)

 

[mweiss]

Well, actually 152 miles according to WebFlyer.

Sorry, I didn't see the need for three digits of precision in making that calculation, because...

Doesn't the actual time above 10,000 feet vary depending on the wind directions and runway configurations?

That's about 3.5 minutes, if one assumes that the time spend below 10,000 ft is the same for each of these routes (is it???).

Beats me. But I'd imagine that we're arguing here about numbers that are well within the margins of error for flight times on the routes. When I was flying between the two cities, the time we spent airborne was about twenty minutes when we didn't have to overshoot on either end.

So 3 F/A's have that extra 3.5 minutes to do what 2 F/A's are "supposed" to do on the CLT-RDU leg?

A worthwhile question to ask. I don't know what the best answer is. All I'm saying is that the coach customer gets more on WN. For me, that wasn't enough to affect my choice of airline, but it clearly was for some people (one of my then-coworkers, for example, who chose WN because of his ability to select his beverage).

 

[mweiss]

Oh, thanks for proving my point that WN doesn't serve on legs as short as CLT-RDU.

No problem. It's hard to say that they do when they don't fly on legs as short as CLT-RDU.

If I'm correct, management decided that consistancy was more important than service, though....

[post="246928"][/post]​

Probably true. Too bad, because one of the best things you can do for morale is trust your customer-facing employees to make the right decision for your customers.

Gonna sit back and wait for the inevitable comment that my real job is to simply hand out drinks, etc. and we are a truly lazy workforce.

[post="246930"][/post]​

And since you were expecting it...
Seriously, you misinterpret the comments about the in-flight service. Yes, the reason you still have a job at all is because the FAA requires that you be present, for safety reasons. Having said that, you must acknowledge that customers do have a choice in airlines (in most cases). If they have a better experience on your competitor's aircraft, they'll stick with your competitor. If that happens to enough of your customers, then you'll be there for nobody's safety, because you won't have an employer.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Michael,

"Doesn't the actual time above 10,000 feet vary depending on the wind directions and runway configurations?"

Absolutely. I've been talking about "worst case" for service - which presumably is what the company uses when establishing the service guidelines.

"All I'm saying is that the coach customer gets more on WN."

Lord knows I'm not one of the WN basher - they deliver a pretty consistent, though somewhat different product. We have legs longer than CLT-RDU that are "no serve" - I'm pretty sure that CLT-CHS is one and that's 13-14 minutes above 10,000 ft with the right combination of runways (and closer to your HOU-AUS at 168 miles) or CLT-MYR (even closer at 156 miles). But they have 3 coach F/A's and we have 2 (for almost the same number of coach passengers if we're talking a 737-400 (which does serve these routes).

Is it realistic to expect 2 people to do the same work in the same time that 3 do over at WN? For those that think a beverage on these short flights are more important than anything else we offer that WN doesn't (F/C, interline, etc), I offer any of 3 suggestions:

1 - Fly WN (except you can't get to some of these cities on them)

2 - Suck it up and bring something to drink with them

3 - Take it up with the people that set the service guidelines

Just don't take it out on "my" F/A's, 99.9% of whom do the best job they can with what they've been given - in my ornery old age I've thrown people off the airplane for less.....

Jim

 

[JS]

Let see it is human nature to discuss things at work while with your coworkers.

I guess you have not experienced three paycuts, loss of your retirement, 20,000+ of your coworkers being laid-off, loss of vacation, sick time, and numerous other things. Paying more for insurance while working more and making less.

Let see everyone is suppose to be happy 100% of the time when they do not know how they are going to pay the mortgage or put food on their table and then have money to retire on.

Here is a simple solution to solve your "crisis", go fly on another airline if you do not like the service US offers and your malcontent for its employees.

[post="246916"][/post]​

That's what I do. If the choice is Delta or US, it's Delta. If the choice is Southwest or US, it's Southwest. It's when the choice is AA, UA, NW or US, then I have to go with the least crappy choice, which would be US.

 

[mweiss]

...anything else we offer that WN doesn't (F/C, interline, etc)...

This is why I specifically referred to coach passengers. They may pay high fares, but they're still in coach, perhaps because they just don't fly often enough to become elite. I cannot recall the last time I flew interline, if I ever did. Is assigned seating more important than drink service? Yes, to some, no to others.

Just don't take it out on "my" F/A's...

[post="246946"][/post]​

hee I know what you mean by "my," but still...hee

 

[BoeingBoy]

"hee I know what you mean by "my," but still...hee "

Glad I can still give you a chuckle now and then.....



Jim

 

[JS]

I am going to attempt to add some prspective from outside of U. At HP we used to have the mainline fly PHX-TUS, about 110 nm. The FA's did not do any service in the air and stayed in their jumpseats until checking the cabin on descent.

We also do not do service on LAS-ONT, which is 197 nm. On a consistent basis there just is not enough time to stay seated until 10k, do a service and trash pick-up, check the cabin for landing and get into the seats.

I work first class a lot, in fact I prefer it. I like to tailor my product to the passengers needs when, and if, I can. I also would rather be doing something then sitting on the jumpseat. However, as someone else said, our primary job is safety of the aircraft and of the passenegers.

Last July I flew America West from LAS to ONT. I'm pretty sure I received a beverage. UA (TED) and Southwest serve beverages from LAS to LAX.

(Gonna sit back and wait for the inevitable comment that my real job is to simply hand out drinks, etc. and we are a truly lazy workforce.)

[post="246930"][/post]​

Thanks, that saved me some typing.

 

[JS]

Michael,

"Doesn't the actual time above 10,000 feet vary depending on the wind directions and runway configurations?"

Absolutely. I've been talking about "worst case" for service - which presumably is what the company uses when establishing the service guidelines.

"All I'm saying is that the coach customer gets more on WN."

Lord knows I'm not one of the WN basher - they deliver a pretty consistent, though somewhat different product. We have legs longer than CLT-RDU that are "no serve" - I'm pretty sure that CLT-CHS is one and that's 13-14 minutes above 10,000 ft with the right combination of runways (and closer to your HOU-AUS at 168 miles) or CLT-MYR (even closer at 156 miles). But they have 3 coach F/A's and we have 2 (for almost the same number of coach passengers if we're talking a 737-400 (which does serve these routes).

Is it realistic to expect 2 people to do the same work in the same time that 3 do over at WN? For those that think a beverage on these short flights are more important than anything else we offer that WN doesn't (F/C, interline, etc)

Domestic First Class is basically like getting to sit in the elderly/handicapped area at the very front of a city bus -- B.F.D.!

Interline is utterly useless. Remember my topic on through-checking? For crying out loud, US can't even INTRA-line! Forget inter-line. That would be really hard.

1 - Fly WN (except you can't get to some of these cities on them)

That's when I fly US, when WN and DL can't get me there.

2 - Suck it up and bring something to drink with them

Kinda hard to do that when I'm already loaded down with carry-ons trying to avoid filing yet another missing bag claim.

3 - Take it up with the people that set the service guidelines

They don't care. It's a waste of time.

I sent a note to Consumer Affairs weeks ago (not about beverages on short flights, but something more serious), and still not gotten a reply.

 

[BoeingBoy]

JS,

"Last July I flew America West from LAS to ONT. I'm pretty sure I received a beverage. UA (TED) and Southwest serve beverages from LAS to LAX."

And therein lies the problem with your complaints.....

Someone else serves on roughly 200 mile legs - that's roughly 10 extra minutes over CLT-RDU and 4 F/A's (Ted) or 3 F/A's (WN) to do it. WN apparently serves on legs as short as 152 miles with 3 F/A's - that's roughly 3.5 extra minutes and 1 extra person over CLT-RDU. So you're outraged that we don't serve on some legs that are even shorter, with less time and fewer F/A's.

Jim