Airlines And Service

[Cfm56]

>>> I just simply don't care to have to stand in line like cattle to get an aisle seat in the front half of the bus.<<<

I NEVER want to sit in the front section of a SWA flight. That's where the pre-boards go which means loud crying and often smelly babies and sick coughing old people. It bothers me little where I sit as long as I don't get a middle seat and if you are in the first 66% of people boarding it's no problem and you'll still usually get an aisle seat. Each to their own though.

 

[KCFlyer]

Third, if you have a problem on WN, i.e. irregular ops, no other airline will work with you to get you where you need to go. Fourth, when things do go wrong, status means nothing on WN. As a business traveler, getting where I need to go, when I need to, can mean having a productive week versus a busted one.

[post="257277"][/post]​

Short story or two. I was flying back from STL to MCI. Wouldn't you know, my flight originated in Detroit, and dang it all, weather in Detroit was bad, and the STL MCI leg was cancelled. So, instead of landing in MCI at 4:00 p.m., I had to settle for 5:00 p.m.

Second...my wife was on UAL a few years ago a week after Thanksgiving (returning from Spain). Had to change in Chicago. Wouldn't you know, a blizzard hit Chicago after her Iberia flight landed, and danged if UAL didn't cancel her ORD-MCI flight home. Not only did UAL cancel the ORD-MCI flight, American cancelled their ORD-MCI flight. But a coworker who was on Southwest that same day, managed to touch down in KC, albeit quite delayed, but they got home nonetheless. Now those folks, many of them productive business travellers, got to their destination. Those at ORD however...regardless of their status on any airline, spent the night.

That is why the market offers Kia's and Cadillac's.

The difference in the airline industry (and the crux of my posts) is that many customers want that Caddy for the Kia price.

 

[ClueByFour]

If I was US Airways Marketing, I'd pay whatever it took to have the show "Airline" that's on A & E run round the clock in both US hubs and select focus cities.

Give Ma & Pa Kettle a nice snapshot of the customer experience on the "Tiolet Bowl Blue & Turd Brown" is like.

[post="257145"][/post]​

Before doing that, I'd take a walk around those focus cities, and ask people without status if they note any difference between flying Southwest and US.

I suspect the answer, in most cases, will be "not really."

As CPs (well, former CPs in my case, since US only got around 50k BIS miles out of me last year) you become insulated to how the airline actually operates for the "average" passenger.

From what I've seen, LUV treats the "average" pax tons better than any given major on any given day. I've had a chance to run between CLE and RDU a few times lately, and CLE and MDW. On each occasion, it was a last minute trip and my choices were either a cramped RJ on CO or LUV or a connection in PHL on US. I must say that printing the BP online and showing up and grabbing an "A" seat on LUV was fairly painless, did not wrinkle my expensive "wear 'em in FC" slacks, and did not make me want to wretch (with the side benefit of not reaching for my wallet to see if the yield management types from the majors had made off with it). My bags even showed up.

Meanwhile, US has managed to delay my bags multiple times by virtue of the fact that they are flying J31s and -8s from RDU to PIT (I won't connect in PHL, even on a dare) and not even my magic US2 card is getting my stuff to me any faster.

I guess my point here is that the "turd brown bus" thing makes for a nice soundbite, but is factually worthless and that showing "airline" in US focus cities might make the average US flyer wanting for more.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Why Not Copy the 'Discount' Carriers?

Here's a surprising fact. The average fare that the 'discount' carriers receive from their passengers is not much lower than the average fare received by the 'full fare' carriers.

Air Fares aren't Fair


Fares


For example, the 2001 annual reports for United and Southwest (to choose extreme examples at both ends of the spectrum) show that United got an average 9.8c of operating revenue per available seat mile (ASM) while Southwest got an average of 8.5c. In other words, on average Southwest fares are only 13% less than United fares! (The difference is even less if measuring revenue passenger miles.)

The real success of Southwest comes not from its 'low' fares (which aren't much lower than 'normal' fares) but from its low operating costs. In 2001, United's operating cost per ASM was 12.0c, but Southwest's was only 7.5c - a massive 37.5% reduction.

The 'success' of airlines like Southwest is nothing to do with their fare policies at all, their financial success is all to do with their cost structure, not their fare structure. Traditional airlines can't copy these carriers (which should be called 'low cost' rather than 'low fare') fares because they can't also copy their costs (much as they would desperately love to).

 

[KCFlyer]

That would be human nature! So you wasted all this bandwidth to be master of the obvious.

If US Airways is willing to give away the store (in your eyes) then it's my job to leverage that.

[post="257299"][/post]​

Leverage away Bobby Boy...and pray like heck that CO or AA or DL or somebody will grant you an equivalent level in their Frequent Flyer program after your carrier of choice closes the doors. Maybe you'll get lucky and the only one willing to comp you status is Delta...then I'm sure that we can read all about how GREAT their service is, despite the fact that you posted a couple of days ago that you found their service completely inadequate.

 

[TomBascom]

US Airways publishes the prices, I take advantage of them. You want me to do something that no sane human being would do and that is pay more than I have to for something. Do you go to the local gas station that is owned by a community member and offer them 10 cents a gallon MORE because you know his wife is pregnant? NO YOU DON'T! So why should I pay more than the published price for any service or product?

[post="257344"][/post]​

Actually people do sometimes do things like that. Sometimes it is the pregnant wife, sometimes its supporting community values, sometimes its just convienence or habit but not all decisions are based purely on price. Actually you could argue that very few decisions are -- price is to buying decisions much like check-in time is to upgrades... when all other things are equal it tips the scales. The trick is to avoid letting all other things be equal.

But it doesn't happen when the price differential is too large or when the value statement is muddled. US Airways suffers from both problems -- your choices are ultra-cheap fares or ultra-high fares; nobody at US has figured out how to offer a reasonable fare in a buyable manner. Nor has US done a very good job of conveying a message about value to the buyer. They seem to remain stuck in a "price is everything" mode and are unable to articulate any sort of product differentiation that would justify paying a premium. Some of us think we see those reasons anyway and carry-on in spite of marketings self-destructive tendencies. Heck we even try to explain these things to them 🙄 for all the good that it does...

 

[KCFlyer]

CO Platuim is but a fax away! Talked to them several times. I've been so unimpressed by DL I'd probably bite the bullet and gain status on a new airline the hard way, earning it by flying them.

Don't be so high and mighty. You'll get a nose bleed from that lofty perch. US Airways publishes the prices, I take advantage of them. You want me to do something that no sane human being would do and that is pay more than I have to for something. Do you go to the local gas station that is owned by a community member and offer them 10 cents a gallon MORE because you know his wife is pregnant? NO YOU DON'T! So why should I pay more than the published price for any service or product?

[post="257344"][/post]​

Bob...send the fax and doff your hat to Ma & Pa Kettle - the ones that all the airlines except Southwest are catering to with the fares you are paying. And get as much as you can from CO...I believe I read that they too might be making a trip to bankruptcy court.

 

[whlinder]

If you see some of the fare silliness please write Consumer Affairs. They do read and respond to e-mails and faxes. Frankly it is the ONE department that is very responsive.

[post="257167"][/post]​

If you want me to write consumer affairs when I see fare silliness I will certainly do that. Of course it will be my definition of fare silliness when I see it. I'll compile a list over the course of a week or two and prepare the letter.

Join us here at FFOCUS, all US customers AND employees are welcome.

Well it has been a while since I fell into the first category and I don't technically fall into the 2nd either. Does that make me not welcome?

 

[ClueByFour]

All I can say is No thanks. People lined up like sheep HOURS prior to flight time blocking others from moving around the concourse. Just as many irate customers if not more than at a legacy carrier gate.

Ever been to a focus city on the weekend? People lined up...... and so forth. But let's forget about that--even at LAX, you can avoid the whole thing. Just show up with your preprinted "A" boarding pass and let the cattle have at it.

One thing I will say is that SWA's customers line up like little lambs being led to slaughter. They seem to see nothing perverse about doing business with a company that makes you stand in line forever for a sprint to a preferred seat. It really is an interesting study of human nature and what people are willing to endure for the perception of a cheaper price.

I guess the point I'm getting at is you don't need to stand in line. Further, what is a "preferred" seat? If you don't have status with US, you are functionally on the same footing you would be on at Southwest.

I said perception because I've already shown that if price is the ONLY criteria I can get to LAX more often than not for LESS on US Airways.

[post="257327"][/post]​

Unless you want to leave tomorrow, in which case Southwest is about $300 cheaper on the roundtrip, of course (that's PHL-LAX-PHL, out on Monday the 21st and returning on Tuesday the 22nd. And, let's be intellectually honest about it--the only reason US is even in the ballpark on price is due to Southwest's very presence.

 

[mweiss]

The difference in the airline industry (and the crux of my posts) is that many customers want that Caddy for the Kia price.

[post="257290"][/post]​

Speaking only for myself, I want the most value for my dollar. If that means that I end up buying a Caddy and only paying a Kia price for it, then I've had a good day.

If I have to choose between paying a Rolls price for a Caddy or a Kia price for a Kia, I end up with the Kia. This is why people get so irritated by the "blofares." It's not a Caddy price for a Caddy; it's a Rolls price for a Caddy...or, more often these days, a Rolls price for a Yugo!