Airline Executives Meet

[mweiss]

when would now be a good time to do that?

You sure like to ask that question, in precisely those words, so I'm going to answer your precise question.

When would now be a good time? Well, is "now" a good time now? If it is not, then "now" will never be a good time. After all, if a good time comes around, it's no longer now...it's sometime later.

Thus, in answer to your question, now will never be a good time.

 

[mweiss]

I don't think hammering labor was the sole end, but it is one of them.

Hammering on labor isn't an end, unless you're suggesting that the reason Dave joined US Airways is that he gets perverse pleasure in sticking it to the little guy. There's little evidence to support that.

Hammering on labor is a means to the end of reducing CASM. It can be the best means in cases where wages are grossly out of sync with the competition. Where they are not, it serves little useful purpose.

 

[mweiss]

PineyBob Remove head from noted location. This is a very simple answer to this particular mathematical problem. GOOD DAY....MORE LATER

That was horribly unconstructive. You said nothing about what was wrong with his argument; instead, you chose to attack the person.

If that's all you have to contribute, then perhaps having more later isn't necessary.

 

[767jetz]

767jetz:

Why do you not debate United issues on the United board?

Because you continue to spin misinformation. As long as you do that I will continue to correct you and show others that you are wrong. (something most people already know anyway.)

As for all your great sources, all I can say is that your record of accuracy (or lack thereof) speaks for itself. While occassionall you actually get on base, over the last few years, you strike out far more often.

I'll make you a deal, you stop your misleading spin about UA, stop posting things out of context, stop saying things that are blatantly not true about UA, and I will no longer post any rebuttals. As long as you try to blur the line between your opinions and facts with regard to UA, I will keep pointing it out, as will other UA employees. (Just like your fellow US employees do when you do the same to them.) :down:

The ball is really in your court. B)

 

[diogenes]

Hammering on labor isn't an end, unless you're suggesting that the reason Dave joined US Airways is that he gets perverse pleasure in sticking it to the little guy. There's little evidence to support that.

Hammering on labor is a means to the end of reducing CASM. It can be the best means in cases where wages are grossly out of sync with the competition. Where they are not, it serves little useful purpose.

No, they enjoyed doing that before dave came along. It just hasn't changed.

 

[PITbull]

Hammering on labor isn't an end, unless you're suggesting that the reason Dave joined US Airways is that he gets perverse pleasure in sticking it to the little guy. There's little evidence to support that.

Hammering on labor is a means to the end of reducing CASM. It can be the best means in cases where wages are grossly out of sync with the competition. Where they are not, it serves little useful purpose.

mweiss,

You have been focused on reading old industry history.

Take your eyes of your "outside" hunch and focus on what NEW history is being made here. Siegel's focus was not just to bust unions from here to kingdom come, but rather an means to get to the "plan" of wealth for his select few at the expense of the employees. Unions and contracts were just nusance to go through to get to the other side of total and complete wealth from none other than the Corporate execs whose greed is no longer covert but OVERT. Labor has been sacrificed. And we are just collateral damage. U and its labor has been attacked and captured by the greatest enemy to labor ....Corporate greed.

As Siegel has repeated in most of his messages in the media of late, "Consolidation is inevitable". We are being groomed for our ultimate fate and destiny. I know you know this is true....you just don't want us to believe it.

The other legacy airlines are not afraid of U. They are watching patiently to see if U management will succeed.

THEY THEN WILL FOLLOW SUIT!

Dio,

You are correct, this is a direct assult on Labor in America!

 

[mweiss]

We are being groomed for our ultimate fate and destiny. I know you know this is true....you just don't want us to believe it.

Why would I care if you believe it? Sure, the airline is being set up to be sold, but labor isn't part of the equation. Near as I can tell, the extent of the requests for more concessions is to buy enough time to get a buyer for the parts of the company.

More than anything, it looks like a game of chicken of sorts. The shareholders of US want to sell the assets for as much as they can get out of them (very little for the airplanes, more for the gates and slots). The potential buyers want to buy at a fire sale. In other words, the selling price is likely to be higher while the planes are still flying.

So, take whatever cash you have, try to stretch it out for as long as you possibly can, and hope someone buys while the price is still higher.

Notice where labor sits in that equation? You're there to keep the planes moving so the price stays up. Since it's a short-term sort of thing, anything that can be done to reduce the wages will keep the planes moving longer, and keep the price up longer. Nowhere does the concept of union busting apply in this analysis. Unions mean contracts. Contracts mean long-term. Long-term doesn't exist here.

 

[tadjr]

It's that simple, US Airways should dump United now. Another words, when would now be a good time to do that?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Cant agree with you there. UA is part of Star. We are becoming part of Star. If UA goes we would be the ONLY US Star carrier. Why throw that away on a possibility of UA not sticking around in exchange for something with (maybe) DL/NW/CO? Star is a much better alliance than Oneworld or Skyteam and US being the ONLY US carrier in it, in your scenario, would be a much better choice for US than joining one of the other domestic carriers and being in a much weaker International Alliance. I personally think both will be around and from looking at the codeshare bookings and seeing the tickets, I can tell you we are getting lots of bookings from the UA codeshare. It is bringing money into US right now. Why mess with something thats working right for a change?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Tadjr:

Tadjr said: Why mess with something thats working right for a change?

USA320Pilot answers: Because I and some informed people believe the odds are greater than 50-50 that United may not survive.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[avek00]

USA320Pilot answers: Because I and some informed people believe the odds are greater than 50-50 that United may not survive.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

No arguing with that - the Soviet United is buckling under the weight of its problems. Fifteen months after filing for bankruptcy, the airline's blood is flowing like vodka, the ATSB still won't guarantee any rubles for the company, comrade pensions are still unresolved, and no perestroika has yet occurred to the company's core business model. But not to worry, the Chicago Kremlin has everything under control... :unsure:

 

[PITbull]

Why would I care if you believe it? Sure, the airline is being set up to be sold, but labor isn't part of the equation. Near as I can tell, the extent of the requests for more concessions is to buy enough time to get a buyer for the parts of the company.

mweiss,

Correct me if I'm wrong...according to many of your postings, you imply and infer that Labor should take more concessions for the "entity's" survival.

From your above posts...you do know why I take the position that I do. If labor is NOT part of the equation, like you and I suspect...then I don't give a damn about the "entity".

 

[mweiss]

Correct me if I'm wrong...according to many of your postings, you imply and infer that Labor should take more concessions for the "entity's" survival.

Ah-ha! The source of confusion that has resulted in us talking past each other for the better part of a month is found!

I suggest that you (in the collective sense of the word) should take more concessions if you wish to try to have US Airways outlast Siegel. If you (collectively) have already given up, I suggest that you should just go ahead and kill the patient and look for work elsewhere, though not necessarily in that order.

I don't give a damn about the "entity".

This is what leads me to ask why you're still there. Once you no longer care about your employer, it's time to leave.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Avek00:

I had to laugh at my computer screen when I read your last post. Your Soviet Union analogy and the fall of that empire was "witty".

By the way, I heard a couple of jokes about United's low cost operation called Ted -- that are circulating around the industry.

1. I understand when Ted flies long-range or "FAR", it's going to be called "FARTed". In fact, some observers believe its P&L will smell too.

2. In addition, did you know that TED is the end of UniTED?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[tadjr]

Tadjr:

Tadjr said: Why mess with something thats working right for a change?

USA320Pilot answers: Because I and some informed people believe the odds are greater than 50-50 that United may not survive.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

And what will it cost US if we dump UA and Star and MAYBE find someone else to hook up with US for alliance purposes? Why wouldnt we want to be THE US Star carrier if your scenario is true? I would think being the ONLY US STAR carrier would be more beneficial than doing a three way with DL/CO/NW or being the ugly stepchild in an AA/BA dominated Oneworld Alliance. In the meantime, we lose nothing by sticking with our codeshare with UA and are possibly building some future clients who are on our codeshare flights IF something should happen to UA.

Please explain it to me if I'm missing something other than just wanting to be unassociated with UA for possible reasons.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Tadjr:

Tadjr asked: Please explain it to me if I'm missing something other than just wanting to be unassociated with UA for possible reasons.

USA320Pilot answers: US Airways needs domestic reach in addition to international code sharing, thus if United fails, US Airways would not have Western U.S. or Pacific gateway code sharing, except for other Star partners.

Regards,

USA320Pilot