Aircraft maint issues

[Real tired]

This question always bugs the **** out of me when asked. Why is it no one questions why pilots have their own representation as do F/A's as do Flight Dispatchers. We have issues and concerns that other groups do not have it is not about being elitist which is another word thrown around when we A@P's wanna go our own way. Was thrown around plenty when we went AMFA at NW. We hold an FAA certificate and can be held accountable in an incident or accident for repairs or work we do and there are plenty of crashes in history caused by maintenance errors to back that up. The NMB has us classified as maintenance and " related" This is why we were forced to take the cleaners when we broke off from the iam and our little local pretty much full time was handling grievances from the cleaner group and their petty BS. Our AMT pay when I was at NW was pretty close to ramp pay under the IAM the entire time I was there our license premium was 70 cents a license. The very first AMFA contract once the ink was dry was a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double the pension multiplier if that doesn't prove that the industrial union was keeping us down nothing will. Personally my feeling is until the NMB has the A@P reclassified as it's own separate class and craft and also falling under the rules of the railway labor act it just isn't worth being in a union as an A@P. I am at FX our license premium is for both A@P is over 20 dollars an hour and we are do not have to deal with any other groups and their issues.

There 'ya go. Good post. I just wish many more felt the way you do. And until they do, we as AMT's, will always be held back.

 

[Buck]

Not doubting your post Buck, but, I don't believe it until I see it. Just as with our co. announcing the same to us. Oh they may very well make a contract offer on the 22nd. If they do it will be too pathetic for the nego team to bring out. Just because there is a contract offer (which SWA gave to us verbally a long time ago) doesn't mean it will be anything to vote on. But a great rumor to start...

There is where the actual difference lies in Industrial Unionism vs. Craft Unionism. If a contract offer is brought back, the Industrial Unionists of the TWU and IAM will view the offers differently than the membership known as Mechanics. Not only has the history of the TWU been to divide the Company Dollars between the Fleet and the Mechanics, now that division must be subdivided between the /TWU, IAM and the Association.

 

[MetalMover]

This question always bugs the **** out of me when asked. Why is it no one questions why pilots have their own representation as do F/A's as do Flight Dispatchers.

Mechanics have no one to blame but ourselves. For literally decades, the TUL masses outnumbered the line. They were usually catered to when it came to contracts which benefitted OH work. Then you add in line mechanics who bought the TWU fear tactics about changing representation. Whether it was "AMFA will get rid of OH and all the senior TUL people would bump the line people", or "You don't want to change representation during negotiations," more than half of us fell for that crap. Now the line numbers are greater than the OH numbers and we still couldn't get enough votes to change.
The TWU has mastered the divide and conquer strategy like Eisenhower planning D-Day.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

This question always bugs the **** out of me when asked. Why is it no one questions why pilots have their own representation as do F/A's as do Flight Dispatchers.

I can't say. I can't speak for other people but I suppose from my perspective I never worked with pilots or flight attendants or dispatchers however, working at TULE I worked in proximity with mechanics every single day.

We have issues and concerns that other groups do not have it is not about being elitist which is another word thrown around when we A@P's wanna go our own way. Was thrown around plenty when we went AMFA at NW. We hold an FAA certificate and can be held accountable in an incident or accident for repairs or work we do and there are plenty of crashes in history caused by maintenance errors to back that up.

I don't think you are an elitist just because you want representation that you feel better meets your needs. However, working at TULE as a FSC (where WE were the minority) I can tell you our group took a lot of abuse from A&P mechanics. They blamed Fleet for their sorry contract instead of the UNION that actually negotiated it. That is where a lot of the accusations of elitism come from, at least that's where they came from at TULE.

The NMB has us classified as maintenance and " related" This is why we were forced to take the cleaners when we broke off from the iam and our little local pretty much full time was handling grievances from the cleaner group and their petty BS.

Would joining AMFA free you of the "and related"?

Can you give me an example of what you consider petty? I only ask because I have to make a determination if it actually was petty or if you just did not take their concerns seriously because you resented being grouped with them.

Our AMT pay when I was at NW was pretty close to ramp pay under the IAM the entire time I was there our license premium was 70 cents a license.

Again blame your negotiator. Fleet does not and has not ever "ridden the coat tails" of anyone. The average FSC has no more control over their contract than you do yours. They simply want the best one they can get just as you do. From their perspective the high pay they receive is compensation for having terrible days off, working holidays, working in bad weather, having their bodies broke down over the years (rarely have I met a FSC lifer without surgery to his back, knees, shoulder, or neck). In their minds their pay and benefits are justified. No FSC feels like he took anything from a mechanic including this one.

That is not to say you have not made valid points about the TWU making dues a priority over your future.

The very first AMFA contract once the ink was dry was a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double the pension multiplier if that doesn't prove that the industrial union was keeping us down nothing will.

It sounds like they got results. In the end that's what matters.

Personally my feeling is until the NMB has the A@P reclassified as it's own separate class and craft and also falling under the rules of the railway labor act it just isn't worth being in a union as an A@P.

But, you just said AMFA got a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double the pension multiplier. Pick a version and stick with it.

I am at FX our license premium is for both A@P is over 20 dollars an hour and we are do not have to deal with any other groups and their issues.

Sounds like you found a good place to make a career.

 

[swamt]

This question always bugs the **** out of me when asked. Why is it no one questions why pilots have their own representation as do F/A's as do Flight Dispatchers. We have issues and concerns that other groups do not have it is not about being elitist which is another word thrown around when we A@P's wanna go our own way. Was thrown around plenty when we went AMFA at NW. We hold an FAA certificate and can be held accountable in an incident or accident for repairs or work we do and there are plenty of crashes in history caused by maintenance errors to back that up. The NMB has us classified as maintenance and " related" This is why we were forced to take the cleaners when we broke off from the iam and our little local pretty much full time was handling grievances from the cleaner group and their petty BS. Our AMT pay when I was at NW was pretty close to ramp pay under the IAM the entire time I was there our license premium was 70 cents a license. The very first AMFA contract once the ink was dry was a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double the pension multiplier if that doesn't prove that the industrial union was keeping us down nothing will. Personally my feeling is until the NMB has the A@P reclassified as it's own separate class and craft and also falling under the rules of the railway labor act it just isn't worth being in a union as an A@P. I am at FX our license premium is for both A@P is over 20 dollars an hour and we are do not have to deal with any other groups and their issues.

I agree 100% Great post!!!

 

[swamt]

Would joining AMFA free you of the "and related"?




But, you just said AMFA got a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double the pension multiplier. Pick a version and stick with it.

Sounds like you found a good place to make a career.[/QUOTE]

Joining AMFA does not free them of the "and related". Using our (SWA/AMFA) change as an example; When we fired the teamsters and went with AMFA we too had to take the cleaners with us, but, in our case we told National if you want us you have to get the cleaners "off our coat tails". In otherwords they had to nego a different contract for our cleaners to get them out of our book, which helped greatly.
Yes AMFA did get NWA mechanics that 13 bucks an hour and doubled the pension multiplier. This is what started the record raises (well deserved) thru-out the airline industry. We threatened the teamsters if they did not beat AMFA's offer at NWA they were gone. They beat it, added stock options and increased 401K. They then proceeded to raise our dues from 2x's to 2.5 x's without a vote so we fired them very quickly and brought in AMFA. Never looked back...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Joining AMFA does not free them of the "and related". Using our (SWA/AMFA) change as an example; When we fired the teamsters and went with AMFA we too had to take the cleaners with us, but, in our case we told National if you want us you have to get the cleaners "off our coat tails". In otherwords they had to nego a different contract for our cleaners to get them out of our book, which helped greatly.

I am just curious how did the cleaners fare once the contracts were split?

 

[swamt]

Not as good as they use to do when they were in our book. Although they did get the stock options and increase in 401K matches. They also received record raises on their next contract after being on their own, but also endured a timely pay freeze for several years before that. If I am not mistaken our cleaners top out at nearly 30-32 an hour.

 

[Vortilon]

Again blame your negotiator. Fleet does not and has not ever "ridden the coat tails" of anyone. The average FSC has no more control over their contract than you do yours. They simply want the best one they can get just as you do. From their perspective the high pay they receive is compensation for having terrible days off, working holidays, working in bad weather, having their bodies broke down over the years (rarely have I met a FSC lifer without surgery to his back, knees, shoulder, or neck). In their minds their pay and benefits are justified. No FSC feels like he took anything from a mechanic including this one.

That is not to say you have not made valid points about the TWU making dues a priority over your future.



Not ridden on A/C Maintenance coat tails? Now that is funny. It wasn't that long ago thay A/C Maintenance had P/T baggage handlers voting on our contracts as well. None of us AMTs thought it was fair that some pt ramper was voting on our issues while receiving identical benefits. That was our introduction into the collective. It wasn't until A/C maintenance got their own locals - that some separation, and true representation for AMTs began. Well now, times have changed - seems we are going backwards again. AMTs have been used and abused by the industrial unions, the companies, and the government - both the FAA, and NMB. They saddle AMTs up with the unskilled minions to dilute AMTs from voting to get out of the muck known as indusrial unions. Anybody that can't see that is in complete denial. The evidence is there, we have experienced it first hand. Maybe after Tulsa gets its stool pushed in, they will wake up, and see what their wonderful union has done for them. If we had the AMFA going into to this merger, it would be safe to say we would have had a contract by now.

 

[WeAAsles]

Again blame your negotiator. Fleet does not and has not ever "ridden the coat tails" of anyone. The average FSC has no more control over their contract than you do yours. They simply want the best one they can get just as you do. From their perspective the high pay they receive is compensation for having terrible days off, working holidays, working in bad weather, having their bodies broke down over the years (rarely have I met a FSC lifer without surgery to his back, knees, shoulder, or neck). In their minds their pay and benefits are justified. No FSC feels like he took anything from a mechanic including this one.

That is not to say you have not made valid points about the TWU making dues a priority over your future.



Not ridden on A/C Maintenance coat tails? Now that is funny. It wasn't that long ago thay A/C Maintenance had P/T baggage handlers voting on our contracts as well. None of us AMTs thought it was fair that some pt ramper was voting on our issues while receiving identical benefits. That was our introduction into the collective. It wasn't until A/C maintenance got their own locals - that some separation, and true representation for AMTs began. Well now, times have changed - seems we are going backwards again. AMTs have been used and abused by the industrial unions, the companies, and the government - both the FAA, and NMB. They saddle AMTs up with the unskilled minions to dilute AMTs from voting to get out of the muck known as indusrial unions. Anybody that can't see that is in complete denial. The evidence is there, we have experienced it first hand. Maybe after Tulsa gets its stool pushed in, they will wake up, and see what their wonderful union has done for them. If we had the AMFA going into to this merger, it would be safe to say we would have had a contract by now.

AMFA SWA. 4 YEARS 9 MONTHS in a holding pattern so far.

Reality bites.

 

[WeAAsles]

Would joining AMFA free you of the "and related"?




But, you just said AMFA got a 13 dollar an hour raise and more than double the pension multiplier. Pick a version and stick with it.

Sounds like you found a good place to make a career.

Joining AMFA does not free them of the "and related". Using our (SWA/AMFA) change as an example; When we fired the teamsters and went with AMFA we too had to take the cleaners with us, but, in our case we told National if you want us you have to get the cleaners "off our coat tails". In otherwords they had to nego a different contract for our cleaners to get them out of our book, which helped greatly.
Yes AMFA did get NWA mechanics that 13 bucks an hour and doubled the pension multiplier. This is what started the record raises (well deserved) thru-out the airline industry. We threatened the teamsters if they did not beat AMFA's offer at NWA they were gone. They beat it, added stock options and increased 401K. They then proceeded to raise our dues from 2x's to 2.5 x's without a vote so we fired them very quickly and brought in AMFA. Never looked back...[/QUOTE]


Looks to me like you should have kept them Truckers, truckin on, not movin on.

Oh well.

 

[Show me the money]

AMFA SWA. 4 YEARS 9 MONTHS in a holding pattern so far.

Reality bites.

Not a mechanic, so your opinion on what we do or a mechanics union is irrelevant. I believe your needed back in rampers forum.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not a mechanic, so your opinion on what we do or a mechanics union is irrelevant. I believe your needed back in rampers forum.

53 years they haven't done anything and they ABSOLUTELY aren't going to now.

11 votes on that AMFA poll thread too BTW.

Better than the 8 write in votes at LUS though. Something to claim you're winning!!!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Again blame your negotiator. Fleet does not and has not ever "ridden the coat tails" of anyone. The average FSC has no more control over their contract than you do yours. They simply want the best one they can get just as you do. From their perspective the high pay they receive is compensation for having terrible days off, working holidays, working in bad weather, having their bodies broke down over the years (rarely have I met a FSC lifer without surgery to his back, knees, shoulder, or neck). In their minds their pay and benefits are justified. No FSC feels like he took anything from a mechanic including this one.

That is not to say you have not made valid points about the TWU making dues a priority over your future.



Not ridden on A/C Maintenance coat tails? Now that is funny. It wasn't that long ago thay A/C Maintenance had P/T baggage handlers voting on our contracts as well. None of us AMTs thought it was fair that some pt ramper was voting on our issues while receiving identical benefits. That was our introduction into the collective. It wasn't until A/C maintenance got their own locals - that some separation, and true representation for AMTs began. Well now, times have changed - seems we are going backwards again. AMTs have been used and abused by the industrial unions, the companies, and the government - both the FAA, and NMB. They saddle AMTs up with the unskilled minions to dilute AMTs from voting to get out of the muck known as indusrial unions. Anybody that can't see that is in complete denial. The evidence is there, we have experienced it first hand. Maybe after Tulsa gets its stool pushed in, they will wake up, and see what their wonderful union has done for them. If we had the AMFA going into to this merger, it would be safe to say we would have had a contract by now.

I would like to remind everyone of the "Me too" clauses they loaded up their 2010 contract with so we could not get anything without them getting it too. So this is not riding someone's coat tails? What is it then? Insurance that someone else won't get a better deal than you? We don't have any representation and we never will.

 

[WeAAsles]

I would like to remind everyone of the "Me too" clauses they loaded up their 2010 contract with so we could not get anything without them getting it too. So this is no riding someone's coat tails? What is it then? Insurance that someone else won't get a better deal than you? We don't have any representation and we never will.

I'd like to remind everyone of the extension offer the company made that needed to be accepted by all 7 workgroups or it was off the table.

One group of putzes wouldn't put their deal to a vote so we got stuck in the downdraft of their hot air gas.