Aircraft maint issues

[NYer]

Actually if the IAMPF goes insolvent the PBGC would only pay you for the time you have in the fund. They will not pay you for the credited time in addition to the actual time in the plan. The PBGC also pays at a lower rate than what any union pension pays out. The PBGC is also in financial distress. The PBGC is no longer the scape goat of miss managed union pensions. This is why the IAMPF needs our money to stay afloat. I say no way. The IAM guys can keep that scam union pension if they want. Don't include me in that scam which will seriously screw my retirement. I'll keep the 401K with hopes of a better agreement similar to the pilots.

Multi-employer plans are more heavily regulated than the our AMR single employer plan. Aside from that, the PBGC has the ability to change the amount paid out to the Plans they take over. So there is a risk in all Pensions, but with that I'm sure more of us would have no hesitation to have our Pension unfrozen.

If you don't believe any of that then there is the fact that it makes no financial sense for the IAM want to take over the frozen plan as the liability would be too great for them to make up.

So, if you believe the IAMNPP is in financial trouble, which it isn't, then it makes even less sense they'd want the AMR Fund and liabilities.

It makes no financial sense at all.

 

[anotherdelay]

So, if you believe the IAMNPP is in financial trouble, which it isn't, then it makes even less sense they'd want the AMR Fund and liabilities.

Are you an investment advisor, and have you done any research on the fund? What's the expense ratio? Do you know anyone that has taken any cuts to make it solvent? What if any of the plans in the funds go g insolvent, who makes for up it? what if any of the employers stop contributing? what happens? You worry about market risk in 401k, which is correct, but you know Fidelity has a million different options now to mitigate and help in that avenue, so you can actually minimize the downside now, let alone be prudently in cash. Do you know what happens in the pensions, they just cut it. do you know they come up with various ways to stop from collecting the pension, if for instance you work for someone else?

Now onto, IAMPF, and why American would unfreeze and move the twu pensions. Have you ever heard the Ups story, on Ups funding the multi-employer funds, but still frustratingly watching their ex employees pensions be cut. The answer to question though, is ask why the iam has promoted for underfunded plans is there. there's a lot unmentionables there, and you know it.

Your selling of this, is obvious to whats going on behind the scenes.

Due Diligence

 

[anotherdelay]

Now you guys understand why I've given up on fleet in this argument. Ny'er is a reasonable guy, everyone else on the council spews the same message, and they have for 2 years. they are pulling out all the guns for this be ready.

Multi-employer plans are more heavily regulated than the our AMR single employer plan. that
s another statement that just feels good, but is neither provable or disprovable. Nor is it relevant in this day and age. More regulated in what way? I'm sure iampf has some questions about the ways its been managed. I won't bring up, a recent case. Anyway any plan can be poorly managed, or cut. If you haven't noticed no one's gone to jail over the past 10 years, for the financial crisis. 401k matching with lower expense ratios again make more sense.

 

[chilokie1]

The IAMPF is a multi company plan , there is a major difference
between it and LAA's frozen plan & you cannot lump the two together
like the TWU tried to when the formation of the ASS was announced.

Tucked into the 2014 federal spending bill were provisions that
would allow multi- employer pension plans to to reduce benefits
for future & "EXISTING" retirees. And if you look at the PPGC
website the multi- employer plans must go through a series of
benefit reductions before it can even think of declaring insolvency.

This is why we bring up the Temsters plan, one of their plans is
in this process now!

I know many of us know this but many of our co-workers do not.

 

[anotherdelay]

anyway, the reason why all the plans have been underfunded is due to more the boomer effect retiring, outsourcing, the smoothing rate of return, and low interest rates and how funds are allowed to invest.

and in the ups story, he can't sue his employer or his union to make up the difference.

They are definitely counting on fleet to be less savvy on this, to push it through. And then if you're iam, since you are stuck in it no matter what, you're going to believe in it without hesitation, and fight for it. No matter how many times its been cut.


Due Diligence

 

[Buck]

Isn't true that the IAMPF relies on contributions from it's participates to "fund" shortages at a rate of approximately four to one? Four participants to One retiree.

 

[NYer]

So, if you believe the IAMNPP is in financial trouble, which it isn't, then it makes even less sense they'd want the AMR Fund and liabilities.

Are you an investment advisor, and have you done any research on the fund? What's the expense ratio? Do you know anyone that has taken any cuts to make it solvent? What if any of the plans in the funds go g insolvent, who makes for up it? what if any of the employers stop contributing? what happens? You worry about market risk in 401k, which is correct, but you know Fidelity has a million different options now to mitigate and help in that avenue, so you can actually minimize the downside now, let alone be prudently in cash. Do you know what happens in the pensions, they just cut it. do you know they come up with various ways to stop from collecting the pension, if for instance you work for someone else?

Now onto, IAMPF, and why American would unfreeze and move the twu pensions. Have you ever heard the Ups story, on Ups funding the multi-employer funds, but still frustratingly watching their ex employees pensions be cut. The answer to question though, is ask why the iam has promoted for underfunded plans is there. there's a lot unmentionables there, and you know it.

Your selling of this, is obvious to whats going on behind the scenes.

Due Diligence

No one is selling anything. Let's not spoil a conversation with the misplaced rhetoric.

Simply stated, the fear of the IAM taking over the AMR Pension just makes no financial sense. The money involved also comes with liability, and they wouldn't want to over that the responsibility.

Your points about risk are not wrong, but in every type of investment, there is a certain amount of risk. The level of risk anyone is willing to take usually dictates their choice of investment. I'm sure you'd agree.

That being the case, if given a choice it isn't unreasonable for some Members willing to pick the IAMNNP over a 5.5% 401K match. That would be especially true the younger the Member is. Most financial advisors preached diversification and given a choice to contribute to a 401K, while also building value in some pension plan would seem to be an advantageous option.

A 20-year-old kid may benefit from the IAMNPP, while also making his contributions to a 401K. I bet many of us wish we'd started earlier in our 401K savings. On the other hand, a 50 year looking to leave early may not have the time to build a significant value if they choose to start an IAMNPP.

That same 50 year old might look at things differently if they received a 5-year of 10-year credit to his vesting.

In any scenario, the Member with more choices usually ends up with the best outcome. That choice may or may not include the IAMNPP or even to take advantage of the 5.5% match.

 

[anotherdelay]

No one is selling anything. Let's not spoil a conversation with the misplaced rhetoric

the spoiling of it you don't answer any the negatives of it, the iampf. Has imapf made cuts to member pensions? And I dispute AA wouldn't unfreeze the pensions and iampf would gladly accept it, because of actuarial s, management fees and iam not giving a rats ass if they have to cut again, if it fails. You are being naive. And the twenty year kid, would be a million times better in the 401k for his beneficiaries. financial advisors live off fees. what do you think they're going to tell you about managed pensions. to this day. bogle takes crap from them. Pull up what's perfomed better and why.

Due Diligence. Have you done it? Is the iampf going to be continued to be forced on iam/twu members? Or will they have a choice?

That same 50 year old might look at things differently if they received a 5-year of 10-year credit to his vesting. Dude, you can't prudently/legally do that to members in pension with what's going on right there? That would mean members who have suffered cuts would first have to be made whole in the past and future most likely. What kind of crap are they selling you? I would love to see that one get by auditors?

 

[WeAAsles]

No one is selling anything. Let's not spoil a conversation with the misplaced rhetoric.

Simply stated, the fear of the IAM taking over the AMR Pension just makes no financial sense. The money involved also comes with liability, and they wouldn't want to over that the responsibility.

Your points about risk are not wrong, but in every type of investment, there is a certain amount of risk. The level of risk anyone is willing to take usually dictates their choice of investment. I'm sure you'd agree.

That being the case, if given a choice it isn't unreasonable for some Members willing to pick the IAMNNP over a 5.5% 401K match. That would be especially true the younger the Member is. Most financial advisors preached diversification and given a choice to contribute to a 401K, while also building value in some pension plan would seem to be an advantageous option.

A 20-year-old kid may benefit from the IAMNPP, while also making his contributions to a 401K. I bet many of us wish we'd started earlier in our 401K savings. On the other hand, a 50 year looking to leave early may not have the time to build a significant value if they choose to start an IAMNPP.

That same 50 year old might look at things differently if they received a 5-year of 10-year credit to his vesting.

In any scenario, the Member with more choices usually ends up with the best outcome. That choice may or may not include the IAMNPP or even to take advantage of the 5.5% match.

NYer are you talking about giving out a free 5 or 10 years to "Service Credit" with automatic vesting which is normally 5 years at the required hours written in the plan documents?

If I got that right I don't think they could do that even if we wanted it or pushed for it?

That would essentially be like stealing other people's money who have been participants and paid in since day one. I think there would be Legal ramifications for any type of action such as that.

But if we could/did receive something like that "Step AWAY from the door and don't block the entrance"

http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/13864/Exhibit_2_Schedule_B.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

No one is selling anything. Let's not spoil a conversation with the misplaced rhetoric

the spoiling of it you don't answer any the negatives of it, the iampf. Has imapf made cuts to member pensions? And I dispute AA wouldn't unfreeze the pensions and iampf would gladly accept it, because of actuarial s, management fees and iam not giving a rats ass if they have to cut again, if it fails. You are being naive. And the twenty year kid, would be a million times better in the 401k for his beneficiaries. financial advisors live off fees. what do you think they're going to tell you about managed pensions. to this day. bogle takes crap from them. Pull up what's perfomed better and why.

Due Diligence. Have you done it? Is the iampf going to be continued to be forced on iam/twu members? Or will they have a choice?

That same 50 year old might look at things differently if they received a 5-year of 10-year credit to his vesting. Dude, you can't prudently/legally do that to members in pension with what's going on right there? That would mean members who have suffered cuts would first have to be made whole in the past and future most likely.

AA is NOT going to unfreeze our Pension period. Aside from the fact that a few of those Leaders in the room are also part of AA's Frozen DBP and they're NOT going to play with their own money

(And they're not going to be paid by anyone under the table either before you suggest it Josh)

 

[anotherdelay]

AA is NOT going to unfreeze our Pension period. Aside from the fact that a few of those Leaders in the room are also part of AA's Frozen DBP and they're NOT going to play with their own money

(And they're not going to be paid by anyone under the table either before you suggest it Josh)

dude you're episode 137 seinfeld. you're the guy Leland fired. just put you on ignore.

 

[WeAAsles]

No one is selling anything. Let's not spoil a conversation with the misplaced rhetoric

the spoiling of it you don't answer any the negatives of it, the iampf. Has imapf made cuts to member pensions? And I dispute AA wouldn't unfreeze the pensions and iampf would gladly accept it, because of actuarial s, management fees and iam not giving a rats ass if they have to cut again, if it fails. You are being naive. And the twenty year kid, would be a million times better in the 401k for his beneficiaries. financial advisors live off fees. what do you think they're going to tell you about managed pensions. to this day. bogle takes crap from them. Pull up what's perfomed better and why.

Due Diligence. Have you done it? Is the iampf going to be continued to be forced on iam/twu members? Or will they have a choice?

That same 50 year old might look at things differently if they received a 5-year of 10-year credit to his vesting. Dude, you can't prudently/legally do that to members in pension with what's going on right there? That would mean members who have suffered cuts would first have to be made whole in the past and future most likely. What kind of crap are they selling you? I would love to see that one get by auditors?

"That same 50 year old might look at things differently if they received a 5-year of 10-year credit to his vesting. Dude, you can'tprudently/legally do that to members in pension with what's going on right there? That would meanmembers who have suffered cuts would first have to be made whole in the past and future most likely. What kind of crap are they selling you? I would love to see that one get by auditors?"


Under your edit here Josh I'd have to agree with you.

 

[WeAAsles]

dude you're episode 137 seinfeld. you're the guy Leland fired. just put you on ignore.

So I'm Feldman and you're Kramer?

"GET OUT"

 

[WeAAsles]

dude you're episode 137 seinfeld. you're the guy Leland fired. just put you on ignore.

Who's anyone kidding. Ignore doesn't work at all on Forums cause our curiosity always gets the better of us.

But anyway Josh you should read the last line on the bottom of the first page on that Schedule B PDF I posted.

The comment about Company's bringing in over 10,000 people. (That's interesting)

 

[chilokie1]

NYer are you talking about giving out a free 5 or 10 years to "Service Credit" with automatic vesting which is normally 5 years at the required hours written in the plan documents?

If I got that right I don't think they could do that even if we wanted it or pushed for it?

That would essentially be like stealing other people's money who have been participants and paid in since day one. I think there would be Legal ramifications for any type of action such as that.

But if we could/did receive something like that "Step AWAY from the door and don't block the entrance"

http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/13864/Exhibit_2_Schedule_B.pdf

Dam Weaasles I actually agree with you, that would be as unresponsable
as the fund managers treating themselves to bottles of wine at $1065 a pop. ....................OH CRAP I FORGOT, THEY DID THAT!