Aircraft maint issues

[Buck]

You would have to present what benefit this independent union is over the IAM, plus how it is structured, and what you guys will be asking for in your contract. They know their pension is going to be frozen regardless if they stayed in the IAM or not. Good luck guys.

The core principle will be base on the AMP Constitution

 

[MetalMover]

Unfortunate if you’re telling me that you think there are that many uneducated AMT’s out there.

But that still didn’t answer the question if you think they should continue to collect funds from AA for them if they did decertify?

They should collect what was funded for them. Just like our frozen pensions.
As far as uneducated AMT's with respect to this issue, you will see on the LAA side those who will argue that it is detrimental to change representation during negotiations.

Sometimes fear wins over common sense.

And I will add this....If this AMP movement picks up steam, it will be because of the ASSociation and the fact that we had no say in its creation. Add this to the fact that two unions having different priorities and ways of operating is NOT a good idea.

 

[WeAAsles]

They should collect what was funded for them. Just like our frozen pensions.

Ok so you agree that of course the IAM can or even should no longer collect funds from AA for people they no longer represent.

Of course those people will collect the amount they would be entitled to from the day when the IAM was decertified. But no more than that as the IAM and the IAMNPF has no further obligations to these people.

As far as uneducated AMT's with respect to this issue, you will see on the LAA side those who will argue that it is detrimental to change representation during negotiations.

Sometimes fear wins over common sense.

I don’t know about detrimental but if it gets to the point where you have the cards and file the Company absolutely will shut down any further talks until you can figure out who you want to represent you and who they will be dealing with? (Who’s in authority)

You will start all over again because whoever you chose to represent you is not obligated to anything that’s been TA’d before.

This has nothing to do with fear more than complete common sense.

And I will add this....If this AMP movement picks up steam, it will be because of the ASSociation and the fact that we had know say in its creation. Add this to the fact that two unions having different priorities and ways of operating is NOT a good idea.

Absolutely it would be because we had no say in the formation of the Association. But I think you’re going to get and need to be ready to answer some pretty tough fair questions. If it’s now AMP again why didn’t whoever made it up follow through? Why was it abandoned 4 years ago? What will make on the fence members believe it will be followed through this time? Do you know how much money this is going to cost? Do you know how long this will “really” take? Are you prepared to start over from square one?

Honestly if you can’t answer the tough questions you’re not going to get the smart people to sign a card. Again if it was so easy you wouldn’t be TWU and IAM for the last 70 years.

70 years Metal.

 

[WeAAsles]

The core principle will be base on the AMP Constitution

The core principle will be “based” on the AMP Constitution?

Does that mean this will be rewritten?

Buck is there anyone who was involved in this who put in the hard work the first time involved once again?

I hope some of the original architects of AMP are involved again or at least gave their blessings for you guys to take over the work they did and put in?

 

[Traymark]

And so the TWU mouthpiece (weasle) has been unleashed here.
Officially on =Ignore

The "ignore" feature works well because nothing Weas will spout here will be to our benefit, mostly fake news.

 

[MetalMover]

Ok so you agree that of course the IAM can or even should no longer collect funds from AA for people they no longer represent.

Of course those people will collect the amount they would be entitled to from the day when the IAM was decertified. But no more than that as the IAM and the IAMNPF has no further obligations to these people.



I don’t know about detrimental but if it gets to the point where you have the cards and file the Company absolutely will shut down any further talks until you can figure out who you want to represent you and who they will be dealing with? (Who’s in authority)

You will start all over again because whoever you chose to represent you is not obligated to anything that’s been TA’d before.

This has nothing to do with fear more than complete common sense.



Absolutely it would be because we had no say in the formation of the Association. But I think you’re going to get and need to be ready to answer some pretty tough fair questions. If it’s now AMP again why didn’t whoever made it up follow through? Why was it abandoned 4 years ago? What will make on the fence members believe it will be followed through this time? Do you know how much money this is going to cost? Do you know how long this will “really” take? Are you prepared to start over from square one?

Honestly if you can’t answer the tough questions you’re not going to get the smart people to sign a card. Again if it was so easy you wouldn’t be TWU and IAM for the last 70 years.

70 years Metal.

Remember, the AA flight attendants left the TWU decades ago and started a union. I am sure they had the same concerns that would still exist today. They did it and guess what? They are better off for it.
As far as starting over again, I will tell you this........We WILL be starting over again come September....The IAM will not budge on their medical stance. Nothing will be brought back to the membership. The TWU is trying to hold steadfast their outsourcing position as well.

I am willing to start anew. The ASSociation is a friggin disaster.

 

[dfw gen]

metal mover you are wasting your time debating any issue on this thread, go to:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/777379235789623/

there are more then two people debating.

 

[MetalMover]

metal mover you are wasting your time debating any issue on this thread, go to:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/777379235789623/

there are more then two people debating.

Done..thanks

 

[WeAAsles]

Remember, the AA flight attendants left the TWU decades ago and started a union. I am sure they had the same concerns that would still exist today. They did it and guess what? They are better off for it.
As far as starting over again, I will tell you this........We WILL be starting over again come September....The IAM will not budge on their medical stance. Nothing will be brought back to the membership. The TWU is trying to hold steadfast their outsourcing position as well.

I am willing to start anew. The ASSociation is a friggin disaster.

Actually I posted that history of the APFA just the other day from their own website. They were only with the TWU for about 2 years while they went through the process of getting their own Union up and running. The one they were with prior went belly up so what it looks to me like was the TWU just took ok the responsibility of servicing them (No pun intended) till they were ready to fly on their own.

Actually the two sides can file for Section 6 in about 2 weeks. We’ll see what happens. Who knows who is willing to move off any positions?

Ok the Association is a friggin disaster. So how will “Negotiations” be different if you start a new Union? Are those Negotiations problems going to magically disappear? Are the former IAM Members suddenly going to be willing to drop their Medical? If the intent of this startup is to get them too why would they sign cards with you?

Or since in Maintenance and related there aren’t as many of them you just plan to brush them and their wants aside?

 

[1AA]

Pilots created own in house Non AFL-CIO union in 1962.

Flight Attendants created own in house Non AFL-CIO union in 1977.

56 years later the same in house pilots union is on the property.

41 years later the same in house flight attendants union is on the property.

After the latest merger the pilots at USAIR chose to be with the APA.

After the latest merger the flight attendants at USAIR chose to be with the APFA.

Just recently the Flight Dispatchers voted and succeeded in leaving the TWU for new representation. The Flight Attendants did as well. I doubt if these two groups will ever consider going back to the TWU.

Will this finally be our turn or are we going to foolishly believe the lies and false claims coming from the association and members from other TWU groups that the sky will fall if we change union representation? That remains to be seen again. We have been lied too many times and given false information every time a card drive is initiated. This last round of lies and deception has to be the final straw. We know the association is here for one reason. Don't let those with special interest in the Association tell you otherwise. Just look at the pace of negotiations. Look at how we are still divided into two companies within the association. The in fighting between the two unions. We are a house divided. We need to be heard as one. One union, one voice. I'm not saying changing representation will get us an ILC in every aspect of the word. What we need is to be properly represented as one group for our own agenda. M&E needs to be focused on M&E's issues. Line, overhaul, AA or USAIR, we are all M&E. Ignore the guys from other departments. They have no say or input on our issues and our card drive should it be successful. I just hope we can somehow get the title 2 guys onboard.
Good luck to all of us at another shot in dumping the dysfunctional Association full of lies and deception.

 

[WeAAsles]

And so the TWU mouthpiece (weasle) has been unleashed here.
Officially on =Ignore

The "ignore" feature works well because nothing Weas will spout here will be to our benefit, mostly fake news.

Not listening, Not listening, Not listening, Not listening, Not listening.

I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!!!!

Hilarious how frightened you are of me actually.

 

[Buck]

The core principle will be “based” on the AMP Constitution?

Does that mean this will be rewritten?

Buck is there anyone who was involved in this who put in the hard work the first time involved once again?

I hope some of the original architects of AMP are involved again or at least gave their blessings for you guys to take over the work they did and put in?

Yes many AMP organizers are still with us ( I was an AMP organizer )

The core principle with the ability to make the "necessary changes."

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes many AMP organizers are still with us ( I was an AMP organizer )

The core principle with the ability to make the "necessary changes."

Excellent Buck glad to read that. I’m already assuming that you guys shut it down in 2014 because money and interest at the time waned?

If you want to really keep it going this time you have to emphasize that people need to keep contributing money. With the raises you guys got in 2016 that should be an easier task than it was back in 2014?

Don’t let anyone give you any excuses when you tell them they need to cough up.

The Dispatchers were easy to leave since they only number a few hundred in either one or two locations. You guys have a hell of a lot more than that and you know it.

But hey never say never right.

 

[Traymark]

Pilots created own in house Non AFL-CIO union in 1962.

Flight Attendants created own in house Non AFL-CIO union in 1977.

56 years later the same in house pilots union is on the property.

41 years later the same in house flight attendants union is on the property.

After the latest merger the pilots at USAIR chose to be with the APA.

After the latest merger the flight attendants at USAIR chose to be with the APFA.

Just recently the Flight Dispatchers voted and succeeded in leaving the TWU for new representation. The Flight Attendants did as well. I doubt if these two groups will ever consider going back to the TWU.

Will this finally be our turn or are we going to foolishly believe the lies and false claims coming from the association and members from other TWU groups that the sky will fall if we change union representation? That remains to be seen again. We have been lied too many times and given false information every time a card drive is initiated. This last round of lies and deception has to be the final straw. We know the association is here for one reason. Don't let those with special interest in the Association tell you otherwise. Just look at the pace of negotiations. Look at how we are still divided into two companies within the association. The in fighting between the two unions. We are a house divided. We need to be heard as one. One union, one voice. I'm not saying changing representation will get us an ILC in every aspect of the word. What we need is to be properly represented as one group for our own agenda. M&E needs to be focused on M&E's issues. Line, overhaul, AA or USAIR, we are all M&E. Ignore the guys from other departments. They have no say or input on our issues and our card drive should it be successful. I just hope we can somehow get the title 2 guys onboard.
Good luck to all of us at another shot in dumping the dysfunctional Association full of lies and deception.

I was on these boards over 2 years ago saying "we are being played".
Enough people now finally realize that as fact.
Time now to move forward with representation that will be voted on by the membership, a novel idea.

 

[1AA]

I was on these boards over 2 years ago saying "we are being played".
Enough people now finally realize that as fact.
Time now to move forward with representation that will be voted on by the membership, a novel idea.

Let's hope the NMB doesn't throw a wrench in their own rules and screw us over again should we get more than enough cards signed