Aircraft maint issues

[MetalMover]

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[B737 driver]

When AMFA wanted to strike NWA, they were not allowed to by the NMB if I recall correctly. The company made sure they had the government in their pocket and the scabs in place before the NMB released them.

Steenlands scab program cost the company upwards of $20 million if I recall and the company filed bankruptcy. Now has joined the airline grave yard.

What would be your plan when the company imposes 50-55% layoffs and a 25% pay cut? Just take it right? Cross the picket line as a scab?

Let us know what the Tulsa brain trusts plan would be.

God you have to the dumbest person in the world. That Bankruptcy was all arranged by Northwest and Delta. They both filled the same day. 20 million bankrupt Northwest what a laugh!

 

[swamt]

I think La Li was speaking about your/his ramper buddy Dippy Dave the WeAAsle, La Li is just another outsider looking in. I really don't take much stock in what La Li opines, he's is no longer in the airline industry or an AMT.

You call me bitter? You can't even live under a fully intact contract at SWA without daily crying and sniveling about your pay raise, or stomping around waiting to blindly vote YES on your T/A, to get your money. Of course, it's all about your IGMer needs. Screw the others, I want mine.

I feel sorry for your poor crew, wading through a river of weak kneed Reamster Roy IGM tears in rubber boots must make a long day for them.

If things ever turn really nasty at LUV and a strike is called, you'll be one of the first to scab.

Guaranteed.

Exactly. He's still sniveling in threads answering me even though the post are well over a month old. He's trying soooo hard.

 

[swamt]

What have you been smoking? If you don't understand what happened to TWA, please don't throw out random BS comments to disparage the rank and file TWU members. That was all handled by an arbitrator named Kasher.

Not unlike Hackman, I too had close contact with NWA AMTs - to this day, they stick to their guns on their decision to strike. Don't forget what their choices were at the time, and you tell us what you would do.
1) Vote YES and 55% of the AMFA membership gets RIF'd - most are the non AMT type BTW.
2) Vote No and risk going on strike

I can understand your frustration; but trust me, your frustration with any of these other non craft unions would be double given the same circumstances.

As usual, your got it all twisted in fine Reamster Roy fashion. We rehashed all of this years ago, I guess while you were on your knees in the office begging for your overtime.

Here we go one more time to straighten out your lies.

Lie #1, TWA got screwed. TWA was going into Chapter 7 liquidation. CEO Carty brain trust decided to buy out the whole broke airline for 2 billion. It was a huge mistake, but all the employees got to keep their jobs and even received raises. The company choose to shut down MCIE, after they promised them they would not. The company reneged a few years later after 9/11 and shut the doors anyway. The company did this, not the union, not the employees, the company lied to them. They should have gone Chapt 7, AA didn't need to buy a broke down airline, but Carty's ego to be the largest won out. It's one reason for the massive 2003 TWu concessions, the TWA mistake.

Lie #2, "Most of the employees were stapled on the bottom". Wrong. The F/As at TWA got stapled on the bottom. The pilots, the AMTs, the rampers were not. I'm not going into how the arbitration cases were handled, you can look it up yourself instead of looking uninformed like you seem to do. US Air was a merger, not a buyout.

Lie #3 "AMFA knew of the replacement workers and their actions destroyed their members." AMFA did not know of CEO Steenland plans to recruit scabs and force a Constructive Lockout. (I posted the Minnesota Supreme Court ruling, you didn't read it of course) It wouldn't have mattered if they did know, as NWA management imposed a 50-55% layoff and a 25% pay cut. AMFA took a strike vote at NWA and the members voted 93% to walk out. Of course, there are the weak and scab oriented brown nosers like yourself that think AMFA at NWA should have brought that POS T/A back for a vote.

Lie #4 "I now understand why the IAM wanted this Association to make sure their members were not decimated again, like TWA was." Again Reamster Roy the brown noser, US Air was a merger not a buyout. The AFl-CIo and Trumka got involved with the NMB to save the IAm pension and prevent us from having a vote, that's the reason for the Association. Another industrial union lie. The IAm should have stepped aside like the pilots and the F/A US Air unions had to do, but because the IAmPF is going broke, they were desperate to keep the dues flowing with the NMB and AFl-CIo help.

You keep up the uneducated lies Reamster Roy, and I'll keep killing them with facts and rubbing your brown nose in it.

Yea, he also claims to know what happened at TWA, NWA, US, UAL, AA, even Braniff, key word here gentlemen is "claims". BTW; I can also guarantee you he did not step one foot in to help the NWA boys when they did their striking. DFW was a great turnout as many of us from SWA went to support our brothers and sisters. And yes Hackman, all the previous NWA'ers I talk to here in Dallas (a lot of them) are still very strong with the decision they made, they always have said that their really wasn't a choice as the co. basically forced them to strike with the 56% layoff and 25% cut in wages alone not counting other work rules that pertained to pay. I got tired of correcting him so I throttled back. I can only really imagine what his crew really thinks about him, know what I mean???

 

[swamt]

deleted

M&M, I would have been very curious about this post that was deleted...

 

[B737 driver]

Exactly. He's still sniveling in threads answering me even though the post are well over a month old. He's trying soooo hard.

Trying so hard for what your partner in crime Hackman is bitter about his lot in life at American. And you both have to defend AMFA. They don't have a JCBA and we are still making what we made in 2012.

 

[B737 driver]

When AMFA wanted to strike NWA, they were not allowed to by the NMB if I recall correctly. The company made sure they had the government in their pocket and the scabs in place before the NMB released them.

Steenlands scab program cost the company upwards of $20 million if I recall and the company filed bankruptcy. Now has joined the airline grave yard.

What would be your plan when the company imposes 50-55% layoffs and a 25% pay cut? Just take it right? Cross the picket line as a scab?

Let us know what the Tulsa brain trusts plan would be.

All I know is this Hackman you hate the TWU, and all industrial unions. Northwest under the IAM had 10,000 mechanics. They got AMFA in and they went from 10,000 mechanics to 1800 mechanics post strike, less than what SWA runs now, so if you want that for your American brorhers, and that is successful in your eyes more power to you.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

All I know is this Hackman you hate the TWU, and all industrial unions. Northwest under the IAM had 10,000 mechanics. They got AMFA in and they went from 10,000 mechanics to 1800 mechanics post strike, less than what SWA runs now, so if you want that for your American brorhers, and that is successful in your eyes more power to you.

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[Hackman]

God you have to the dumbest person in the world. That Bankruptcy was all arranged by Northwest and Delta. They both filled the same day. 20 million bankrupt Northwest what a laugh!

Well, the laugh is on you Reamster Roy, you seem to not read and comprehend very well, and make things up. I never stated that the millions Steenland spent on scabs caused NWA to file bankruptcy. They had millions on hand from the taxpayers of the state of Minnesota and the Federal Gover-mint.

Yes, Dougie Steenland colluded with Delta and Dick Anderson. We all knew that about 10 years ago.

You should quit while your behind brown noser.

As I said, we were arguing these topics here while you were on your knees in the man's office.

 

[Hackman]

All I know is this Hackman you hate the TWU, and all industrial unions. Northwest under the IAM had 10,000 mechanics. They got AMFA in and they went from 10,000 mechanics to 1800 mechanics post strike, less than what SWA runs now, so if you want that for your American brorhers, and that is successful in your eyes more power to you.

I'm growing tired beating on you, your feckless lies and Reamster BS have all been tried and disproven years ago by others smarter than you. You should go educate yourself on the subjects you speak of, before you look any more stupid.

Reamster Roy homework assignment: Look up who allowed the outsourcing of the NWA DC-10s and 747s to China. Hint; it wasn't AMFA.

 

[B737 driver]

Why are you still replying? In posts 5173 and 5174 Hackman knocked your dik in the dirt. Now put your tail between your legs and go lick your wounds like a good boy.

You wish just because you three AMFA lovers believe something in your heads doesn't mean it is true. It would be nice if all the complaining he does- he would do something to help their situation. You crowsfoot can't do simple math in your head. And Swampy has to call his pit bull to defend a Union that isn't even at American., what a sad lot you three are.

 

[Buck]

The difference between him and me, is he is both angry at his employer and his union. I love my job, SWA, the people I work with, and the one's that work for me, respect me, because I take care of them. I am just pissed at my union.

If you had the TWU as your representitive you would be pissed too and remember TWU uses closed shop.
The fact remains that of my 34 years SWA has out distanced my wages at every turn.

 

[WeAAsles]

If you had the TWU as your representitive you would be pissed too and remember TWU uses closed shop.
The fact remains that of my 34 years SWA has out distanced my wages at every turn.

So are you saying that AMFA would allow you to duck out from paying dues? I highly doubt that.

Here’s some light reading for you.

Union's Opt-Out Procedure for Airline Workers Constitutional
From Labor & Employment on Bloomberg Law

July 13, 2016

By Larry Swisher

July 12 — A Transport Workers Union labor contract's requirement that covered nonmember employees pay collective bargaining fees and the union's procedure for workers to opt out of paying the fees are constitutional, a federal appeals court ruled ( Serna v. Transport Workers , 2016 BL 221988, 5th Cir., 15-10328, 7/11/16 ).

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit's decision July 11 affirmed a district court ruling in May 2015 granting summary judgment to the TWU and dismissing a class action brought by a group of workers at Envoy Air Inc. and Southwest Airlines Co., whose case was supported by the National Right to Work Legal Foundation.

“We conclude that the two questions presented in this appeal are governed by controlling Supreme Court and Fifth Circuit precedent,” the appeals court said, citing decisions permitting the Railway Labor Act's union shop provision and the RLA's opt-out requirement.

The plaintiffs are current or former employees of Envoy, formerly American Eagle Airlines Inc., and Southwest Airlines who aren't or weren't TWU members. The TWU’s labor contracts with Southwest and American Eagle contain union security clauses requiring all represented employees, regardless of whether they are members of the union, to pay their share of costs related to the TWU’s collective bargaining activities.

First Amendment
The U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas in December 2014 certified a class of former, present and future nonmembers of the TWU, excluding those who have since joined the union.

The Department of Justice intervened in the case, urging the court to reject the constitutional challenge to the union shop provision of the RLA, which governs labor relations in the railroad and airline industries.

The workers claimed that the RLA’s authorization of compulsory union fees and the TWU’s opt-out choice structure for union fees and its requirement that nonmembers renew their objections annually violate the First Amendment, according to the district court's 2015 decision. They also argued the TWU’s escrow-and-rebate procedure for collecting dues violates the First Amendment. The TWU later removed the annual renewal requirement.

The U.S. Supreme Court in Railway Employees Department v. Hanson, 351 U.S. 225, 38 LRRM 2099 (1956) found the RLA's union shop provision constitutional under the commerce clause.

The plaintiffs argued, however, that recent high court decisions have been critical of past decisions affirming the constitutionality of union-shop provisions generally and constitute an invitation to eventually re-litigate the RLA provision.

The TWU and the DOJ said the plaintiffs failed to show that recent Supreme Court decisions undermined Hanson or other precedent upholding the union shop provision.

The district court, in granting summary judgment to the TWU, agreed. It found that although the Supreme Court cases “have arguably indicated some concern regarding the soundness” of Hanson, “it is not the role of this Court to deviate from established, binding jurisprudence.” The lower court also granted summary judgment to the union one two other issues while finding another claim moot.

Two Issues Raised
The Fifth Circuit in a two-page decision said the nonmembers' appeal raised two questions, one regarding the RLA's union-shop provision and the other regarding the opt-out requirement.

Affirming the district court's findings, the appeals court said both issues are governed by Supreme Court and Fifth Circuit precedent. It cited Hansonand Shea v. Int’l Ass’n of Machinists & Aerospace Workers, 154 F.3d 508 (5th Cir. 1998), which found the RLA's opt-out requirement is permissible.

The lower court in its decision also ruled that the TWU's removal of the annual renewal requirement made the plaintiffs' claim on that issue moot and that circuit courts have upheld the constitutionality of escrow-and-rebate procedures.

The TWU collects the entire dues amount from objecting employees, placing the nonchargeable portion in an interest-bearing escrow account with a cushion of an additional 50 percent of that amount, and subsequently refunds the nonchargeable portion with interest to the nonmember.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

You wish just because you three AMFA lovers believe something in your heads doesn't mean it is true. It would be nice if all the complaining he does- he would do something to help their situation. You crowsfoot can't do simple math in your head. And Swampy has to call his pit bull to defend a Union that isn't even at American., what a sad lot you three are.

At least we speak the truth. You spew lies and disinformation. It seems to come naturally for you. I wonder how many of your loyal crew members would say the same thing?.

 

[B737 driver]

If you had the TWU as your representitive you would be pissed too and remember TWU uses closed shop.
The fact remains that of my 34 years SWA has out distanced my wages at every turn.

That's because we always did less with more, and allowed outsourcing, our group is very small for our fleet size, so the company always paid us well to be able to out source. Believe me I had crap jobs before I just found a better job.