Aircraft maint issues

[Deleted member 14439]

Based on all that, it sounds like another 2 to 3 years, who knows maybe we will be done at the same time.

IDK, maybe. Its hard to say since we are deprived of any information.

 

[AA89]

IMHO I see changes in scope, insurance and RIF language to just name a few. LAA are already seeing and feeling the effects in scope, Looking at ASOM every night we see more work being done by vendors. I do not see any reason to expect that to change. We don`t like it one bit but are stuck I`m sure it will only get worse. LUS is used to lots of work being farmed out, so no big deal in their eyes.

Insurance. LUS does not want LAA insurance, much as we do not want LUS scope. Guess what? We are are going to get stuck with LUS scope, already are, and LUS IS going to end up with LAA insurance IMHO.

RIF language. As I understand the IAM language you can bump where your senority will allow but no recall. LAA has recall rights but also the anti union company friendly juniority bumping system.

These are just my thoughts on how this thing will lean. We are all going to have parts of this thing we will not like. I`m pretty sure we will also be underwhelmed on a JCBA that is sure to be less than industry leading.

That’s pretty much it Hog. Today we have the TWU guys sweating job losses (or commuting in companyspeak) and IAM guys sweating increases in insurance. And all of us wondering where the inevitable job cuts will come from.
This secret negotiation crap is a joke but the ball is in our court now. And has been since the company passed the last big items across the table all at once.
We want non-stop negotiations? Even if we met with the company tomorrow what would we do? If the company passed a POS with all remaining items across the table we should do the same at the first opportunity.
We are blaming Parker now. And his statement about being for serious negotiations at the 3Q shindig was total BS but pretty soon we have to focus on Peterson. Not having any details is becoming a bigger deal every day that passes.

 

[AA89]

Based on all that, it sounds like another 2 to 3 years, who knows maybe we will be done at the same time.

I predicted 2 years ago it would be the Sept 2018 amendable date at the earliest. After what UAL did and you guys are going through, I can see 4+ years after that as well. Legally we screwed ourselves in BK with a 6 year deal and no snapback clause and we are bound by tye RLA like y’all are. Outside of that we have a lot of guys that are just comfortable enough to put up with this crap until they can retire.

 

[B737 driver]

I predicted 2 years ago it would be the Sept 2018 amendable date at the earliest. After what UAL did and you guys are going through, I can see 4+ years after that as well. Legally we screwed ourselves in BK with a 6 year deal and no snapback clause and we are bound by tye RLA like y’all are. Outside of that we have a lot of guys that are just comfortable enough to put up with this crap until they can retire.

Well I can tell you this, as soon as this deal passes, whenever that is, a bunch of guys will retire, they are just waiting on the money. Me I have another 19 years to go. I wish you guys luck .

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

IMHO I see changes in scope, insurance and RIF language to just name a few. LAA are already seeing and feeling the effects in scope, Looking at ASOM every night we see more work being done by vendors. I do not see any reason to expect that to change. We don`t like it one bit but are stuck I`m sure it will only get worse. LUS is used to lots of work being farmed out, so no big deal in their eyes.

Insurance. LUS does not want LAA insurance, much as we do not want LUS scope. Guess what? We are are going to get stuck with LUS scope, already are, and LUS IS going to end up with LAA insurance IMHO.

RIF language. As I understand the IAM language you can bump where your senority will allow but no recall. LAA has recall rights but also the anti union company friendly juniority bumping system.

These are just my thoughts on how this thing will lean. We are all going to have parts of this thing we will not like. I`m pretty sure we will also be underwhelmed on a JCBA that is sure to be less than industry leading.

That’s pretty much it Hog. Today we have the TWU guys sweating job losses (or commuting in companyspeak) and IAM guys sweating increases in insurance. And all of us wondering where the inevitable job cuts will come from.
This secret negotiation crap is a joke but the ball is in our court now. And has been since the company passed the last big items across the table all at once.
We want non-stop negotiations? Even if we met with the company tomorrow what would we do? If the company passed a POS with all remaining items across the table we should do the same at the first opportunity.
We are blaming Parker now. And his statement about being for serious negotiations at the 3Q shindig was total BS but pretty soon we have to focus on Peterson. Not having any details is becoming a bigger deal every day that passes.

This is what happens when you accept concessions for jobs. You should insist on what you want and worry about headcount later. The UNION is not concerned about your loss of benefits. Their goal is to keep your base rate as high as they can and keep headcount up to maximize UNION dues.

You started doing this to yourselves decades ago. I don't see any signs of change.

You will continue to fear job losses, the UNION will continue to sacrifice benefits for headcount and higher base pay, and the company will slowly contract your jobs away. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and.......................................

 

[MetalMover]

IDK, maybe. Its hard to say since we are deprived of any information.

Not only that, how about a COUNTER PROPOSAL from the union instead of just saying the company's offer is an insult. They constantly remind us that the company is dragging its feet, but where is the union's offer?

 

[B737 driver]

Not only that, how about a COUNTER PROPOSAL from the union instead of just saying the company's offer is an insult. They constantly remind us that the company is dragging its feet, but where is the union's offer?

Metal it's funny no matter what airline it is, same details you hear for maintenance. Everyday we see at work on the company monitors ask AMFA to present the company offer. The company has their road shows and AMFA has theirs.Back and forth, it just gets old. So we are there with you.

 

[Vortilon]

Not only that, how about a COUNTER PROPOSAL from the union instead of just saying the company's offer is an insult. They constantly remind us that the company is dragging its feet, but where is the union's offer?

Talked to one of the Union reps yesterday, they are down to 3 articles to TA. Anyway, they are supposed to address compensation starting today. That should be fairly straight forward - Delta or UAL plus 3%.
On the issue of submitting a full contract proposal, that approach could potentially put at risk already TA'd articles. With 3 articles left, probably not a good idea. That is the jist of what was explained by the union rep.

 

[Matt1200]

Talked to one of the Union reps yesterday, they are down to 3 articles to TA. Anyway, they are supposed to address compensation starting today. That should be fairly straight forward - Delta or UAL plus 3%.
On the issue of submitting a full contract proposal, that approach could potentially put at risk already TA'd articles. With 3 articles left, probably not a good idea. That is the jist of what was explained by the union rep.

I know some union members want a contract now. I for one is to take the time to get this contract right. Remember this will be a 5 year contract. I like the IAM insurance and TWU’s amount of work that stays in house. We should not give up jobs for more money and accept insurance increases when any raises we get will be lost paying higher insurance cost. Doug wants a cost neutral contract! Not this time Doug! I only have a little time left. I want to see better things for retirees and to be offered some kind of insurance when I retire. As for the young mechanics more job security and top out in 5 years.

 

[AA89]

This is what happens when you accept concessions for jobs. You should insist on what you want and worry about headcount later. The UNION is not concerned about your loss of benefits. Their goal is to keep your base rate as high as they can and keep headcount up to maximize UNION dues.

You started doing this to yourselves decades ago. I don't see any signs of change.

You will continue to fear job losses, the UNION will continue to sacrifice benefits for headcount and higher base pay, and the company will slowly contract your jobs away. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and.......................................

Stating the obvious of course and we faced what every other airline has faced and fared no differently. No airline, or union, has saved jobs since deregulation. Just think, we could have had SWA pay....and Scope....20 years ago. I say “we”. How many of us would still be at AA had we voted away jobs for pay starting back in the 90s? It was always Tulsa’s fault as of course the line guys would have gladly voted themselves out of a job so those that were left could make more money. Such pu$$ie$ in TULE .
That’s all water under the bridge. The workers at the other majors have come out of BK and been rewarded. It’s our turn now. This isn’t the past and Executives can’t cry poor anymore. Just have that Sept. 2018 amendable date and the RLA In the way now.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Stating the obvious of course and we faced what every other airline has faced and fared no differently. No airline, or union, has saved jobs since deregulation. Just think, we could have had SWA pay....and Scope....20 years ago. I say “we”. How many of us would still be at AA had we voted away jobs for pay starting back in the 90s? It was always Tulsa’s fault as of course the line guys would have gladly voted themselves out of a job so those that were left could make more money. Such pu$$ie$ in TULE .
That’s all water under the bridge. The workers at the other majors have come out of BK and been rewarded. It’s our turn now. This isn’t the past and Executives can’t cry poor anymore. Just have that Sept. 2018 amendable date and the RLA In the way now.

Please stop blaming everything on deregulation.

Is American Airlines making record profit? Yes.

Will you as a group give up compensation to save jobs? Yes.

Will the UNION sacrifice your benefits to keep your base pay and headcount high so they can collect more dues? Yes.

NONE of these have anything to do with deregulation.

They ALL have to do with fear and control.

 

[WeAAsles]

Talked to one of the Union reps yesterday, they are down to 3 articles to TA. Anyway, they are supposed to address compensation starting today. That should be fairly straight forward - Delta or UAL plus 3%.
On the issue of submitting a full contract proposal, that approach could potentially put at risk already TA'd articles. With 3 articles left, probably not a good idea. That is the jist of what was explained by the union rep.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if SCOPE is actually finished after all as this rep I guess informed you? Don’t know if you read it Vortilon but CB on the Fleet thread said they were told to book Hotel rooms through the weekend.

Well let’s see if we get any word by Friday?

BTW Delta placed their PS back to what it was when Parker was running around the Country saying Delta plus 7%, just a little reminder.

 

[MetalMover]

Talked to one of the Union reps yesterday, they are down to 3 articles to TA. Anyway, they are supposed to address compensation starting today. That should be fairly straight forward - Delta or UAL plus 3%.
On the issue of submitting a full contract proposal, that approach could potentially put at risk already TA'd articles. With 3 articles left, probably not a good idea. That is the jist of what was explained by the union rep.

Without having a crystal ball, I think we can all agree that SCOPE is the biggie here. Then the medical. But being kept in the dark about just about every article that has been TA'd or proposed by the company, we can only speculate.

 

[MetalMover]

Wouldn’t it be ironic if SCOPE is actually finished after all as this rep I guess informed you? Don’t know if you read it Vortilon but CB on the Fleet thread said they were told to book Hotel rooms through the weekend.

Well let’s see if we get any word by Friday?

BTW Delta placed their PS back to what it was when Parker was running around the Country saying Delta plus 7%, just a little reminder.

WeAAsles, Scope is the big one here. Unless the company changes its position, WHATEVER, it may be, I do not see a TA anytime soon. Add this to the LAA medical vs LUS medical issue, it may take a long time. I might very well be wrong, but we shall see.

 

[B737 driver]

Without having a crystal ball, I think we can all agree that SCOPE is the biggie here. Then the medical. But being kept in the dark about just about every article that has been TA'd or proposed by the company, we can only speculate.

Scope and seniority is everything. But most of the time if the company knows you can be bought, they will do it. Especially if the membership is not really involved.