Aircraft maint issues

[swamt]

At AA we are going to have Industry Leading Contracts period. Then as usual someone will come along and leapfrog over us. Hell it could even be you? Will there be “changes” here and there to put language together that people will feel is a concession to them? Guaranteed absolutely. Changes in philosophies alone can make a concession to any individual if that’s how he wants to view it. There are areas trying to put it together that would be 100% impossible to not have it viewed that way.

Show me the word “PROMISE” though? The word I’m looking for is “PROMISE”? You stated that the Association “PROMISED” swamt. Now stop playing games and shove that proof down my throat to shut me up once and for all?

swamt you look at the World way too simple for me and my guess is that many you work with and negotiate for you are exactly the same. Why you’re over 5 years (In actual Negotiations) I suspect. You’re now officially making less per hour than all your Major Counterparts in the Industry and have (Don’t care about the reasons just like you) thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of less jobs. Thousands.

BTW you ONLY hate the TWU, IAM and IBT because you want (need) all those people to join AMFA to maybe help you secure your survival working for SWA. How come you’ve still had no strike vote yet? C’mon man grow a set already. Have that Strike vote. Exercise your rights under the RLA and NMB. Vote to strike and when the NMB releases you, you can really show Gary Kelly who’s the boss at that Airline. You really do need to Strike over there by now.

BTW if there are a few restless members over here, you’re SWA thread is absolutely inundated with dissatisfied peeps.

Actually as I have stated before "I hope you do get ILC" But I will NOT believe until I see it, not from these two unions representing you guys.

 

[AA89]

Just an observation and a thought.... In years past our membership didn't show much unity and voted in bad contracts many times. I would think that if the entire offer were revealed you'd see posts here and also hear from some coworkers that it was not a bad deal. Truth is a lot of the membership cannot be trusted and would help the company sell a bad deal. Remember their goal is for 50% plus one vote and that is what they got in 2012. Was it a good deal? Of course not. If I were G. Peterson I would not trust this membership either. Just my two cents. Sometimes the union has to protect the membership from themselves. After all we're the ones who voted to give away all the stuff we are trying to get back right? Think about it.

Seems that way and at the same time protecting his own job? The other question is: How long will the members tolerate it? Especially the guys that don’t see their jobs on the line in a TA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually as I have stated before "I hope you do get ILC" But I will NOT believe until I see it, not from these two unions representing you guys.

Alright swamt, whatever you say then. I’ll post some pictures of the TWU Protest in Times Square at the Negotiations this Wednesday.

And BTW Unions are people, not acronyms.

 

[swamt]

Just an observation and a thought.... In years past our membership didn't show much unity and voted in bad contracts many times. I would think that if the entire offer were revealed you'd see posts here and also hear from some coworkers that it was not a bad deal. Truth is a lot of the membership cannot be trusted and would help the company sell a bad deal. Remember their goal is for 50% plus one vote and that is what they got in 2012. Was it a good deal? Of course not. If I were G. Peterson I would not trust this membership either. Just my two cents. Sometimes the union has to protect the membership from themselves. After all we're the ones who voted to give away all the stuff we are trying to get back right? Think about it.

This is exactly how our NC feels too. In 2009 the NC was recommending a strong NO vote and the membership let them down. Made the company think that the NC is not what the membership wants and they now believe the same thing again. But this time around with a new and improved NC they took the time this time to poll the membership twice (once just earlier this year) to get a better feel on what the majority of the membership wanted at the table. Company is still stuck on 2009 that the membership does not trust the NC and they are wrong. The only thing I didn't agree with was the major jump in economics that AMFA slid to the company, but, you know what? Maybe, just maybe if the company would move on scope I am sure AMFA might move some on economics, but for the ask they are asking in scope hence the larger ask in economics, yea it scared the company, but, how does it feel to experience the same type of nego's as the company themselves are putting on? Good luck to you guys OldGuy, it seems as we both are fighting for more work to stay or come in house. Scope very important.

 

[Traymark]

In 2010, we were presented a TA, were recommended a NO vote and it was voted down overwhelmingly. So what's your point again...

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Seems that way and at the same time protecting his own job? The other question is: How long will the members tolerate it? Especially the guys that don’t see their jobs on the line in a TA.

Divide and conquer has worked every single time. This is what AA depends on to get lousy deals passed. That is why they are telling us how great the deal is while those who have seen it know better. Line guys think the only jobs going to be outsourced are OH so that is a non issue for them but just take a look at Brazil and you see B checks and other line work being done there and you should be able to see what the plan is for the line stations. Outsourcing is going to negatively affect all of us. But you have people who won't read the TA and will just vote yes. We have proven time and again that you can't fix stupid. I don't want the stupid ones forcing another lousy contract on me.

 

[B737 driver]

This is exactly how our NC feels too. In 2009 the NC was recommending a strong NO vote and the membership let them down. Made the company think that the NC is not what the membership wants and they now believe the same thing again. But this time around with a new and improved NC they took the time this time to poll the membership twice (once just earlier this year) to get a better feel on what the majority of the membership wanted at the table. Company is still stuck on 2009 that the membership does not trust the NC and they are wrong. The only thing I didn't agree with was the major jump in economics that AMFA slid to the company, but, you know what? Maybe, just maybe if the company would move on scope I am sure AMFA might move some on economics, but for the ask they are asking in scope hence the larger ask in economics, yea it scared the company, but, how does it feel to experience the same type of nego's as the company themselves are putting on? Good luck to you guys OldGuy, it seems as we both are fighting for more work to stay or come in house. Scope very important.

Interesting you,didn't report this information, until I did on the SWA Forum, yesterday, have a good day.

 

[Buck]

In 2010, we were presented a TA, were recommended a NO vote and it was voted down overwhelmingly. So what's your point again...

and in the past, it was the other way "that's the best you are going to get brother" and voted in. Don't think the devout membership does anything for itself.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

I work out of IAH and we had a mechanic (AA) tell my friend that instead of 50 mechanics that now we are going to have 100. Mostly because our current contractor (JetPro) can't keep up with all the new routes and flights we are supposed to get. As a result the ramp is supposed to follow behind mechanics. Does this sound about right? Have you heard diff+-e AA hasn't been here fully since 2012.

 

[AA89]

I work out of IAH and we had a mechanic (AA) tell my friend that instead of 50 mechanics that now we are going to have 100. Mostly because our current contractor (JetPro) can't keep up with all the new routes and flights we are supposed to get. As a result the ramp is supposed to follow behind mechanics. Does this sound about right? Have you heard diff+-e AA hasn't been here fully since 2012.

Who do you work and for and what do you do Colonel? I didn’t understand your post. Are you saying JetPro is adding mechanics at IAH? AA pulled maintenance out of there in 2004 but there have been rumors of AA adding maintenance back there. I’m not buying it.

 

[Topcat187]

I work out of IAH and we had a mechanic (AA) tell my friend that instead of 50 mechanics that now we are going to have 100. Mostly because our current contractor (JetPro) can't keep up with all the new routes and flights we are supposed to get. As a result the ramp is supposed to follow behind mechanics. Does this sound about right? Have you heard diff+-e AA hasn't been here fully since 2012.

I would speculate about 75 AMTs after the contract is settled.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Who do you work and for and what do you do Colonel? I didn’t understand your post. Are you saying JetPro is adding mechanics at IAH? AA pulled maintenance out of there in 2004 but there have been rumors of AA adding maintenance back there. I’m not buying it.

Envoy. They took the ramp over in 2012. Supposedly TWU told us American will take the ramp back soon. In addition the mechanics are coming back. What I'm saying American is bringing back AA mechanics to remove Jetpro.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

I would speculate about 75 AMTs after the contract is settled.

Thanks Topcat. 100 sounded like a lot but they say we are adding cities out of IAH so I guess it makes sense. We had 15 kickoffs at one time and no AMT doing checks overnight. I never understood that.

 

[B737 driver]

Divide and conquer has worked every single time. This is what AA depends on to get lousy deals passed. That is why they are telling us how great the deal is while those who have seen it know better. Line guys think the only jobs going to be outsourced are OH so that is a non issue for them but just take a look at Brazil and you see B checks and other line work being done there and you should be able to see what the plan is for the line stations. Outsourcing is going to negatively affect all of us. But you have people who won't read the TA and will just vote yes. We have proven time and again that you can't fix stupid. I don't want the stupid ones forcing another lousy contract on me.

They always target the biggest group, to get a deal passed, and then people say I didn't vote for it, when in reality they did.

 

[bigjets]

In 2010, we were presented a TA, were recommended a NO vote and it was voted down overwhelmingly. So what's your point again...

That's when we had Bob and all the other AMFA loyalists saying vote NO RESTORE AND MORE, send them back into negotiations. Well 7 years later we still have nothing. Over $60k in cash alone per mech lost. Not to mention a $2.50 plus in line premiums. I bet that would help out those AFW mechs that are commuting now.

GP has a difficult job, because the scope will be attacked and he will be blamed for selling out whoever gets let go because of it.