AFA Tentative Details Released

[etops1]

So far from what I have read ..I think its a joke. It looks to me( and I don't want to make this an east or west thing because I never do ) That we are carrying the PHX fa's wit this contract .There are many improvements for the PHX fa's and either the same or no improvements for everyone else .

 

[Move2CLT]

So far from what I have read ..I think its a joke. It looks to me( and I don't want to make this an east or west thing because I never do ) That we are carrying the PHX fa's wit this contract .There are many improvements for the PHX fa's and either the same or no improvements for everyone else .

Some FAs losing 10 days of vacation. 4.5 to 4 credits for vac day. And look at their insurance now and compare it to yours.

No, if anyone is being carried its the east.

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

Let's face it, it's not going to make everybody happy. My expectations were low, so I guess I'm pleasantly surprised it's not worse.

 

[700UW]

Considering that no one other than AFA officials and negotiators have seen the whole thing, sounds like you're just spreading rumors. I know it's hard for you to grasp, but you're not an expert on every groups job and working conditions. Heck, you don't even know what being on reserve is like do you? How many reserve stock clerks did US have?

Jim

No reserve stock clerks, 40 hours gaurantee!

And Jim, I guess you didnt know back in 2005 I was assigned to the IAM/CO Flight Attendant Negotiations in IAH.

And dealing with CO's HR and Inflight Management was a pleasure compared to US. And yes it was concessionary negotiations.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So far from what I have read ..I think its a joke. It looks to me( and I don't want to make this an east or west thing because I never do ) That we are carrying the PHX fa's wit this contract .There are many improvements for the PHX fa's and either the same or no improvements for everyone else .

Don't use this as a pretext for anyone to start the east/west pilot thing, but that sounds like the pilots in reverse. The group with the worst contract will get the most improvements and there's no real way around that.

If you haven't, take a look at the WN/FL FA integration thread. There's a WN (presumably) FA that doesn't sound like he'd be happy even if every FL FA fell to the floor prostrate when he passed by, singing their thanks for him personally giving them the holy grail of working for WN. As he puts it, the FL FA's are "demanding EVERYTHING!!!"

Jim

 

[flybynite]

Don't use this as a pretext for anyone to start the east/west pilot thing, but that sounds like the pilots in reverse. The group with the worst contract will get the most improvements and there's no real way around that.

If you haven't, take a look at the WN/FL FA integration thread. There's a WN (presumably) FA that doesn't sound like he'd be happy even if every FL FA fell to the floor prostrate when he passed by, singing their thanks for him personally giving them the holy grail of working for WN. As he puts it, the FL FA's are "demanding EVERYTHING!!!"

Jim

I've been reading that thread and it's just awful.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've been reading that thread and it's just awful.

I agree, and thanks mostly to one person and I'm not even sure what he wants or thinks is fair.

Jim

 

[Onestep2flt]

Exactly how are reserves getting hosed? More money, trip assignments in seniority order, higher guarantee, more days off (for West), minimum for split trips. Sounds awful.

Unless there were major changes to the reserve section that we have talked about the last year or so you will not have your seniority back as you think. You MIGHT have the ability to pick a trip in seniority order. There are days of availability (4,3,2,1) and you will have seniority in your group. The problem lay in the fact that the company at their sole discretion decides whether your group is open or closed. Thought you were going to Rome tomorrow, think again your group is closed and you are in the 4 day group so you can only take a four day. By the way someone junior took that Rome trip! Don't forget you will have shifts of twelve hours also. The way I understand it you can only take trips departing in your shift. (Not sure how that affects scheduling as far as future or daily). So, sometimes you might get to choose in seniority but the company desides when that will be. There are so many factors going into how that will be decided you will need a super computer to figure it all out. Again that is a simple look at the reserve section based on info from this board when that section closed over a year ago. I suppose they might have opened it back up but I don't think so. I have been know to be wrong before so feel free to correct me. My point is don't try to convince people they are getting a seniority driven system back because that would be a pretty big stretch. That was originally how Mr. Flores tried to sell it to you but even he conceded it was a "more seniority based" system.

Not trying to take the wind from your sails because some things do not look real bad. But as everyone has pointed out the Devil is in the details. Bullet points are very deceiving because they tend to whitewash over the complete picture. Like any good politician, your negotiators want to always point out the good and hope you never find the bad until the polling is over!

 

[Toothy Grin]

I'm voting YES!

I don't require much, apparently.

 

[etops1]

I am not happy with it but i need things explained to me . I will be attending these road shows . I will keep an open mind. The positives for me are 100% sick pay, 100% dh pay, I see that we are getting Red flag pay of 125% like CO white flag pay where you get paid time and a half extra an hr for a pairing you pick up in open time when they are short. FA can make good money doing this . The only thing is that we are getting paid time and a quarter instead of time and a half .Still good money .Also we will get penalty pay for management violations. Go to sec 10 under rescheduling .New language states penalty pay for any scheduling violation will be paid time and a half for the entire pairing . That's pretty good imo..

 

[AlleghenyVista]

When looking at the whole deal with the 4/3/2/1 reserve groups with Future/Daily Scheuling, FAs will only be required to chose a trip in their group when they are short. Aside from the week between Xmas and NY a few weeks ago, when in the last 6-8 months have we been short? There are NEVER trips going into the RSV book in any of the 3 East bases. You will be free to chose what you want 99% of the time. I dont have a problem with that. I also think the 12 hour RAPS are a HUGE improvement over the 24hr on call that we currently have. Only time will tell.

 

[SparrowHawk]

ANY contract, be it a Labor/Management contract or a general business contract have one thing in common.

Ross Perot used to say when he ran for President, "The Devil is in the Details" and he is right.

I don't pretend to know half of what's in the proposed agreement or even half the terminology, however the membership does. Which is my point. Calm down, enjoy the Super Bowl and demand a true & correct copy of the CBA from your union. When you're lounging in the Jump Seat instead of playing Suduko or reading Soap Opera Digest pull out the proposed CBA and READ IT!!!! Cover to Cover and bring a highlighter and a pad and pen. Make notes, have a list of questions. Know the contract inside out and backwards. Challenge your leadership at the roadshows. Know the proposed contract better then those presenting it. For God's sake, ASK QUESTIONS.

Then when you do vote you;ll be confident in your decision. I don't know the specifics and what is good or bad. What I do know is years back I got royally screwed because I didn't read the contract thoroughly. I don't make that mistake anymore even if the sale takes and extra hour to complete.

You have a deal that you're going to live with for 5 years or more. Make sure you can live with it. best of luck to all, I hope it goes well and you get what you deserve and desire. If not then you have to act in your best interests.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

When looking at the whole deal with the 4/3/2/1 reserve groups with Future/Daily Scheuling, FAs will only be required to chose a trip in their group when they are short. Aside from the week between Xmas and NY a few weeks ago, when in the last 6-8 months have we been short? There are NEVER trips going into the RSV book in any of the 3 East bases. You will be free to chose what you want 99% of the time. I dont have a problem with that. I also think the 12 hour RAPS are a HUGE improvement over the 24hr on call that we currently have. Only time will tell.

Granted your staffing is abundant now, but in the details? Staffing, PBS, less vacation WEST, how many will DUI furlough and run you short on a monthly basis? Remember when MNGMT would use the ole FLEX CAP, every month! READ, the fine print , good luck! MM! The job you may vote away, may be your own!

 

[usfliboi]

Granted your staffing is abundant now, but in the details? Staffing, PBS, less vacation WEST, how many will DUI furlough and run you short on a monthly basis? Remember when MNGMT would use the ole FLEX CAP, every month! READ, the fine print , good luck! MM! The job you may vote away, may be your own!

One way to look at this...In almost every way this contract is much better than what we have today. Me too as of today and the last several years has been irrelevant. Co Pairing has its goods and bads but we are the only airline that does it. Are there thing I dont like ? Sure...By definition it can not be perfect. I am actually impressed that we were able to get some of what we got. Once the details are published it will be clear but from what I can see....We did fairly well! At the end of the day people vote based on pocket book issues.... No one can deny that...Well maybe 2 or 3 on here lol

 

[Kev3188]

There's a WN (presumably) FA that doesn't sound like he'd be happy even if every FL FA fell to the floor prostrate when he passed by, singing their thanks for him personally giving them the holy grail of working for WN. As he puts it, the FL FA's are "demanding EVERYTHING!!!"

Jim

+1

demand a true & correct copy of the CBA from your union. When you're lounging in the Jump Seat instead of playing Suduko or reading Soap Opera Digest pull out the proposed CBA and READ IT!!!! Cover to Cover and bring a highlighter and a pad and pen. Make notes, have a list of questions. Know the contract inside out and backwards. Challenge your leadership at the roadshows. Know the proposed contract better then those presenting it. For God's sake, ASK QUESTIONS.

And when that's done, read it again. And again.