AE/Envoy Pilots Reject AIP

[nycbusdriver]

2 reps have found a way to finagle another vote - the increased sweetness has yet to be disclosed. More like sour grapes for the yes voters.

 
Ah, yes!  We at US Airways saw a similar situation years ago (pre-AWA) when the pants-wetters in CLT held a rally for the TV cameras, bringing their little ones holding the infamous "Let My Daddy Vote" signs!  I think the result was LOA 93, but ALPA was so busy giving stuff away to the company at the time, it may have been another kick in the shorts.  It's hard to keep track.
 
Sorry to hear that AE/Envoy now has to go through the same demoralizing/humiliating process.  The era of pilot give-backs is over for the time being.  Don't give them anything.  Unless the new "pot sweetener" puts AE in equivalence or better than the contemporaries, reject it.

 

[RJcasualty]

It appears an ALPA MEC meeting has been called for MAR07. Topic unknown but all points to a "sweetened" offer. Will it sway the pilots?  As a subtext, there are some shenanigans going on in ORD involving ALPA base reps that could flip outcomes.  Following is a sentiment pasted from another BB:                                                                                                                        

"...Given the current state of the regional industry anyone interested in looking at ANY revisions of this AIP is either a management stooge or has their head so far up their own a$$ you could never get it out, even with the largest crowbar.


You can’t get on the internet these days without seeing something popping up somewhere, almost on a daily basis, regarding the state of this industry, and the large staffing issues presenting themselves at every single regional carrier in the US.


Furthermore, it is no secret that the overwhelming majority of pilots are openly against anything being presented to this pilot group that has any tone of a single concession; yet we are now hearing rumors that this could in fact be in our faces again.


There is no way management is not reading this post right now and they have to know that even if this turd were to be sent to the pilots it would be shot down. Being shot down by a large number by the pilot group would be even worse for them than just the MEC telling them no. I have said this many times and believe that if this thing were to ever make it to the pilot group the fix would be in, and have no doubt voting manipulation would be the top priority on their agenda.


This company has completely failed on so many levels it is ridiculous. These morons went all in with pocket 2s without ever seeing the flop. They have lost almost all their stack, and will be on full tilt in the very near future.


What pilots they could have gotten they have single handedly run off by all the fear grenades they threw themselves. 

Why in the world would a new hire come here after management had openly told us that the plan would be to shrink us then liquidate us via the Comair route. We, by their own admission, are a shrinking company with NO growth. Bases will close, downgrades will occur, and upgrades will be nonexistent, all from their own hyperbole.


These morons have torpedoed their own lifeboat and I for one am getting the word out as best I can, to let any new aspiring pilot know that you have no flow plan if you get hired here. What flow plan that exists could take 10 years or better to actually see and our current contract is being violated on a daily basis with no signs of any fix in the near future. They will be on reserve for the better part of 3 to 5 years with the very real possibility of losing their base or equipment at any time.


Educating any potential new hire is not in my best interest at the moment but we have to get the word out so this thing implodes on them faster than they ever anticipated.


They ordered these new aircraft and they are going somewhere at sometime. Yet magically, in their infinite wisdom, they think someone will do it at a more competitive rate than us.


We all need to understand something regarding that thinking. Any regional out there that is not wholly owned, almost all of them mind you, has to turn a profit. We are owned by AAG. Our profit is their profit. What I am getting at here is any regional bidding on any rfp AAG sends out, has to be cheaper than us. The big difference here is we don’t have to make a single penny. If eagle makes no money but at the same time loses not one penny, then AAG would be ahead of the game. So for them to farm these new planes out to any other regional the only way it would be cost effective is if said bidding regional could do it for less than eagle working on a zero profit margin.


When I was is business I could not keep the lights on working on a 20 percent profit margin. Generally, we had to keep a 30 percent margin to make it worthwhile to stay in business. Funny how AMR admitted in court that the connection flying was costing AMR 30 percent higher that what Eagle could do it for at that time.


These idiots are in for a rude awakening if and when they get any responses back on the rfps that will have to go out.
The fact is they have no plan B and now are left holding their peckers in their hands and Parker is now trying to figure out how to repair his bruised ego.


Stay strong people, if you are on the fence, get the f*ck off and stand strong with us, and the other strong pilot groups telling their respective management teams to all go pound sand. The biggest fear management has is unity amongst our ranks. How terrified do you think they are now as they see group after group uniting as one from many different carriers?


The tide has shifted and these companies have finally, by their own works, have done something our own unions have not been able to do, unite us all. PSA was a wild card, and as long as the rest of us continue this momentum we will NOT be broken. I see it every day when I talk with other pilots from other groups. We are, and will, win this, as long as we stay united and begin our own attacks.


We need to be active and respond to any and all articles discussing this shortage. Make these companies explain their horrible pay and quality of life issues. The more time they have to justify their positions the less time they have to focus on how next to attack us.


This is now our fight, and once we realize our unity will win this thing, we will overcome the Parkers and Bedfords out there..."

 

[nevergiveup]

Supply and demand, what a concept!

 

[psa8979]

RJ the word we use and the one i think your excellent post is informing ALL Union Workers with is SOLIDARITY ! Lets hope it works against AAL led by the Tempe Brat Pack and greed/fear with our own Brothers /Sisters .  Contracts NOW ! Contracts for ALL .

 

[will fix for food]

RJ the word we use and the one i think your excellent post is informing ALL Union Workers with is SOLIDARITY ! Lets hope it works against AAL led by the Tempe Brat Pack and greed/fear with our own Brothers /Sisters .  Contracts NOW ! Contracts for ALL .

Tell your PSA pilot brothers that.

 

[psa8979]

Would  food fix  but i live and work at SFO . Worked for THE Pacific Southwest Airlines not psa LCC Express . Don't know or have any influence with psa Pilots. Will leave that to others. Good Luck . Solidarity works !

 

[jimntx]

I've got to get to the store. I don't think I have enough popcorn to last through this. Union members standing together for the good of all. Who'd a thunk? This is getting to be fun!

Now, say the NLRB does the right thing (I know. I know. Farfetched in the extreme. As the old song says, "I can dream, can't I?), and releases the AE pilots into self-help. Assuming the company finagles a PEB to order them back to work. What happens then? What is the recourse if the pilots choose to not come back to work. It's not like the company can fire them all, and a supply of trained, qualified pilots will appear on the horizon ready to go to work for an airline whose owner has already said will be liquidated. And, judging from the interview with the Republic CEO, no one is anxious to pick up the slack.

If they do go back to work, how long does a PEB last?

 

[will fix for food]

I've got to get to the store. I don't think I have enough popcorn to last through this. Union members standing together for the good of all. Who'd a thunk? This is getting to be fun!Now, say the NLRB does the right thing (I know. I know. Farfetched in the extreme. As the old song says, "I can dream, can't I?), and releases the AE pilots into self-help. Assuming the company finagles a PEB to order them back to work. What happens then? What is the recourse if the pilots choose to not come back to work. It's not like the company can fire them all, and a supply of trained, qualified pilots will appear on the horizon ready to go to work for an airline whose owner has already said will be liquidated. And, judging from the interview with the Republic CEO, no one is anxious to pick up the slack.If they do go back to work, how long does a PEB last?

They won't be released. This isn't section 6 negotiations. The pilots have a contract that expires in 7 years IIRC. Management just decided that being the second lowest paid in the regional industry wasn't profitable enough, they had to be the lowest, so they came after them. When they didn't bite they said they would "com air" the airline and put 14000 people on the street.

Pay attention to what happens here. We are just the tip of the iceberg. The other employee groups are next.

I give it three years until people are crying for Arpey to come back.

 

[eolesen]

I give it three years until people are crying for Arpey to come back.

You're a year or two late on that. People were saying that as soon as the S.1113 hearings started...

 

[RJcasualty]

I've got to get to the store. I don't think I have enough popcorn to last through this. Union members standing together for the good of all. Who'd a thunk? This is getting to be fun!

Now, say the NLRB does the right thing (I know. I know. Farfetched in the extreme. As the old song says, "I can dream, can't I?), and releases the AE pilots into self-help. Assuming the company finagles a PEB to order them back to work. What happens then? What is the recourse if the pilots choose to not come back to work. It's not like the company can fire them all, and a supply of trained, qualified pilots will appear on the horizon ready to go to work for an airline whose owner has already said will be liquidated. And, judging from the interview with the Republic CEO, no one is anxious to pick up the slack.

If they do go back to work, how long does a PEB last?

You give this company far too much credit to think that far ahead. If they had even a sliver of foresight, this absurd predicament would have been unnecessary. Management has been paralyzed if not mesmerized by the concessionary DAL/Pinnicle deal and is incapable of any original thinking beyond that--- all in the face of serious pilot supply and demand issues that have surfaced since that deal.

 

[700UW]

The NLRB has nothing to do with Airlines, that would be the NMB.

 

[mwa]

GAO Study
Full Report
http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/661243.pdf

 

[700UW]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/02/republic-ceo-we-havent-talked-to-american-airlines-about-getting-more-jets.html/
 

Republic CEO: We haven’t talked to American Airlines about getting more jets

 

[RJcasualty]

According to this analyst, the industry is now scratching its head as to who pays for the feed. What a silly question. IMHO, if the industry is fine with eliminating discounts, ratcheting up nickel and dime fees and overhauling traditional frequent flyer programs, why can't they pass along a cost that will attract the very people needed to make it all possible?  This isn't croquet science, folks.    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-28/with-pilot-shortage-regional-airlines-search-for-someone-to-pay-rising-costs

 

[eolesen]

Who pays for the feed, or who jumpstarts the supply of pilots?

It may just be a matter of time before you see one of the airlines approach the FAA to allow an exception for an ab-initio program to train their own pilots, and stop worrying about getting them from the regionals.

For those unfamiliar with ab initio, new hires with little to no pilot experience get a company backed loan for their pilot training, and the company agrees to forgive the loans over time as long as the pilot stays employed, or become liable for the outstanding balance if they choose to leave. It's a fair trade for the time and cash outlay involved with getting up to 1,500 hours. The airlines benefit by being able to train the pilots in their own procedures from Day 1, and there's less "we did it this way" baggage brought into the cockpit.

It's a similar approach to how some areas of the country are dealing with being unable to recruit nurses and other medical technicians who are licensed. A half dozen or so airlines have used this model successfully, and it seems to have worked well for virtually all of our armed services...