AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
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Doesn't matter about legitimacy. It only matters what the NMB thinks. Is that 3rd party good enough?
I am so looking forward to the campaign. ALPA's going to have to come up with something new very soon.
AAA ALPA Topic 8/31/07 - 9/06/07
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
- Status
Doesn't matter about legitimacy. It only matters what the NMB thinks. Is that 3rd party good enough?
I am so looking forward to the campaign. ALPA's going to have to come up with something new very soon.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
Hey Callsign Cactus,
In the other closed thread you and I were talking about change of control.
Have you been following the ramp voting and upcoming arbitration over just the same issue we talked about? I really hope those guys win and it means you are correct. Then I'll take everything back I said. Obviously I was misinformed. Because if they do win, I can now file an appeal to start receiving a reduced benefit from the PBGC. Thanks for pointing that all out.
And if they lose, you better go back and check your facts before telling me its gospel.
And if there is a settlement, I would interpret that as they have merit and could have won anyway.
Since you're so sure of your facts, I have no doubt you will happily volunteer your expertise on this matter on behalf of our ramp people. They would appreciate it.
In the other closed thread you and I were talking about change of control.
Have you been following the ramp voting and upcoming arbitration over just the same issue we talked about? I really hope those guys win and it means you are correct. Then I'll take everything back I said. Obviously I was misinformed. Because if they do win, I can now file an appeal to start receiving a reduced benefit from the PBGC. Thanks for pointing that all out.
And if they lose, you better go back and check your facts before telling me its gospel.
And if there is a settlement, I would interpret that as they have merit and could have won anyway.
Since you're so sure of your facts, I have no doubt you will happily volunteer your expertise on this matter on behalf of our ramp people. They would appreciate it.
Junebug172
Veteran
- Sep 26, 2002
- 629
- 1
Shouldn't you be crying "armegeddon" or something.
Why is it every one of your fellow east pilots I talk to about you thinks you're a weeny.
L
luvn737s
Guest
What a campaign slogan! And when the final vote comes in with say, 1500 USAPA votes to 4500 non-USAPA votes then what will happen? Will you handle it like they did with the Presidential election in Mexico?
What's is anarchy's Plan B?
L
luvn737s
Guest
Is that what USAPA believes? Well bully for them. What's their track record with respect to honesty and integrity? Why not file that motion right now, since you obviously have the big mo' behind you to carry any election? Teensy lil' problem there, eh? 2209's probably the last 4 digits of the USAPA founder's SSN.
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
Can you possibly be a bigger hypocrite? I guess your just not smart enough to see the irony in what you say.
When is the East MEC going to abide by the arbitration award.
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
As usual, you believe wrong. Please quote where I said that or retract (yet another) false statement. I'm not you, so I understand it's not nearly as damning and or funny to quote what I wrote back to me, but you could at least try, eh?
What I did say is that Nicolau would not go the way you said it would. As it turns out, I was right. How could an "informed insider" be (again) so wrong? You never have answered that one.
I've also said that USAPA will not allow you and your greedy buddies to staple the AWA pilots as your proposal would have done. We'll see how that turns out, but I'm batting a grand
Finally, it's worth noting that the USAPA folks had better be prepared for the real possibility that their actions may leave you without union representation, and that the very last thing the company will get from ALPA is a signed copy of the Nicolau list. Better hope they put the company suck-ups on the good equipment whence you are unionless. Maybe then you will get a widebody slot and/or into PIT without having to step on another pilot group or over the RC4 to get either, respectively.
Go bluster at the West guys about imposition. They are laughing all the way back to their counsel's office. How is Dan Katz, these days? At least the East has found another law firm willing and able to represent (and take money from) stupid.
OldpropGuy
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 185
- 8
SEND BUTTON FOR PRATHER
I love the send button, email flood idea! It seems it's just necessary somewhere else.
It's time for all other ALPA members to email or call Capt. Prather, and demand that he fulfil his duty by sending the BINDING ARBITRATION decision to management. His current actions are an extreme insult, and slap in the face, to the remaing non-AAA members, who make up a very large majority of ALPA. Otherwise, we should all threaten to decertify!
This continued foot-dragging or stalling, while he tries to appease those who agreed to the process, but now refuse to accept the results with their attempted extortion, is totally unacceptable. It is doing nothing but destroying all credibility of a once strong organization.
As the very large majority of ALPA, we the other members, have the undeniable right to expect nothing else.
I love the send button, email flood idea! It seems it's just necessary somewhere else.
It's time for all other ALPA members to email or call Capt. Prather, and demand that he fulfil his duty by sending the BINDING ARBITRATION decision to management. His current actions are an extreme insult, and slap in the face, to the remaing non-AAA members, who make up a very large majority of ALPA. Otherwise, we should all threaten to decertify!
This continued foot-dragging or stalling, while he tries to appease those who agreed to the process, but now refuse to accept the results with their attempted extortion, is totally unacceptable. It is doing nothing but destroying all credibility of a once strong organization.
As the very large majority of ALPA, we the other members, have the undeniable right to expect nothing else.
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #55
Why so much emotion?
I find it interesting that I am not afraid to hide my identity, but others can insult people in this Forum and hide thier identity. I believe that is being a coward.
Here are the facts:
- The US Airways MEC and the vast majority of the East pilots believe the Nicolau Award violated ALPA Merger Policy.
- John Prater told US Airways pilots in six separate meetings last month that ALPA is not going forward the Nicolau Award to the Company.
- The EC passed two resolutions calling for joint discussions to find a remedy to the Nicolau Award dispute and the AWA MEC stuck their noses up in the air.
- The AWA MEC has refused to work with the Rice Committee.
- According to ALPA EVP Paul Rice, "if one of the parties does not fully cooperate, the President in consultation with the Committee will move forward, seemingly with the other party and communicate with the pilots and the company.
- There will be no joint contract between the Company and both pilot groups until there is a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award.
- The US Airways MEC lawsuit against the AWA MEC will proceed, where Roland Wilder told the US Airways MEC this suit could be litigated for 3-5 year's.
- USAPA's efforts will proceed, with new efforts to organize the AWA pilots happening this weekend, with the likelyhood of a NMB filing this month. Then in 90-120 days ALPA could be thrown off both the AWA and US Airways property before the end of the year. This will create union representation "imposition" on the AWA pilots and according to AWA Communications Committee Chairman Tania Bziukiewicz delay a new contract for at least 2 year's.
Finally, I believe much of today's pilot problems is due to the AWA MEC's position to not abide by the EC's two resolutions, not work with the Rice Committee, and not agree to Doug Parker's position that the parties need to negotiate a solution to the seniority integration problem; as well as the misrepresentation by the AWA MEC.
According to US Airways MEC Chairman Jack Stephan, "On another matter related to equal pay for equal work, and equally as irritating, the AWA leadership continues to report to their pilots and other parties that we are not truthful in our communications to our pilots. I personally take exception to their claim. While I served you as Communications Chairman and while I have served you as MEC Chairman, your leadership has consistently reported the good, the bad, and the ugly and we will continue to do just that. To suggest that your leadership is guilty of protecting you from the truth, reflects a mindset that “just doesn’t get it.†I hope you share the indignation of your elected representatives and your MEC Officers over this totally inappropriate accusation. We remain committed solely to the US Airways pilots and we work for you, period. As for the offhand comments of the AWA leadership, we will consider the source and we will refrain, as always, from commenting on their affairs. We will continue to be professional in all our communications."
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
I find it interesting that I am not afraid to hide my identity, but others can insult people in this Forum and hide thier identity. I believe that is being a coward.
Here are the facts:
- The US Airways MEC and the vast majority of the East pilots believe the Nicolau Award violated ALPA Merger Policy.
- John Prater told US Airways pilots in six separate meetings last month that ALPA is not going forward the Nicolau Award to the Company.
- The EC passed two resolutions calling for joint discussions to find a remedy to the Nicolau Award dispute and the AWA MEC stuck their noses up in the air.
- The AWA MEC has refused to work with the Rice Committee.
- According to ALPA EVP Paul Rice, "if one of the parties does not fully cooperate, the President in consultation with the Committee will move forward, seemingly with the other party and communicate with the pilots and the company.
- There will be no joint contract between the Company and both pilot groups until there is a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award.
- The US Airways MEC lawsuit against the AWA MEC will proceed, where Roland Wilder told the US Airways MEC this suit could be litigated for 3-5 year's.
- USAPA's efforts will proceed, with new efforts to organize the AWA pilots happening this weekend, with the likelyhood of a NMB filing this month. Then in 90-120 days ALPA could be thrown off both the AWA and US Airways property before the end of the year. This will create union representation "imposition" on the AWA pilots and according to AWA Communications Committee Chairman Tania Bziukiewicz delay a new contract for at least 2 year's.
Finally, I believe much of today's pilot problems is due to the AWA MEC's position to not abide by the EC's two resolutions, not work with the Rice Committee, and not agree to Doug Parker's position that the parties need to negotiate a solution to the seniority integration problem; as well as the misrepresentation by the AWA MEC.
According to US Airways MEC Chairman Jack Stephan, "On another matter related to equal pay for equal work, and equally as irritating, the AWA leadership continues to report to their pilots and other parties that we are not truthful in our communications to our pilots. I personally take exception to their claim. While I served you as Communications Chairman and while I have served you as MEC Chairman, your leadership has consistently reported the good, the bad, and the ugly and we will continue to do just that. To suggest that your leadership is guilty of protecting you from the truth, reflects a mindset that “just doesn’t get it.†I hope you share the indignation of your elected representatives and your MEC Officers over this totally inappropriate accusation. We remain committed solely to the US Airways pilots and we work for you, period. As for the offhand comments of the AWA leadership, we will consider the source and we will refrain, as always, from commenting on their affairs. We will continue to be professional in all our communications."
Best regards,
USA320Pilot
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #56
US Airways MEC Chairman's Letter to ALPA President
August 30, 2007
Captain John Prater, President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
1625 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20016
Dear Captain Prater:
On behalf of the US Airways MEC, I hereby request that you call a special meeting (conference or in person) of the Executive Council to consider an urgent matter affecting all US Airways pilots.
The US Airways management team has advised us that on September 28, 2007, they expect to receive a single FAA operating certificate to replace the current separate US Airways and America West FAA operating certificates. We believe that this is a violation of the Transition Agreement which requires “separate operations†until the pilot integration has occurred. We initially asked that this dispute be filed in approximately May 2007. However, because the America West pilots did not support this dispute, it has not yet been filed.
Our internal disagreement with the America West pilots is on the agenda for the next regular Executive Council meeting. However, if we must wait until that meeting we will not, as a practical matter, be able to file the dispute in time to prevent the Company from obtaining a single certificate.
Once the certificate is issued, in our view, it will be impossible to reverse. We need your support to have the Association process this dispute immediately. If the Executive Council does not act at a special meeting within the next couple of days, the Transition Agreement dispute may well be moot. Failure to file this dispute would be to the detriment of all US Airways pilots.
I would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter.
Fraternally,
Captain Jack Stephan
US Airways MEC Chairman
cc: Captain Tom Zerbarini
ALPA International Officers
Enc: AAA MEC Transition Agreement Dispute resolution
August 30, 2007
Captain John Prater, President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
1625 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20016
Dear Captain Prater:
On behalf of the US Airways MEC, I hereby request that you call a special meeting (conference or in person) of the Executive Council to consider an urgent matter affecting all US Airways pilots.
The US Airways management team has advised us that on September 28, 2007, they expect to receive a single FAA operating certificate to replace the current separate US Airways and America West FAA operating certificates. We believe that this is a violation of the Transition Agreement which requires “separate operations†until the pilot integration has occurred. We initially asked that this dispute be filed in approximately May 2007. However, because the America West pilots did not support this dispute, it has not yet been filed.
Our internal disagreement with the America West pilots is on the agenda for the next regular Executive Council meeting. However, if we must wait until that meeting we will not, as a practical matter, be able to file the dispute in time to prevent the Company from obtaining a single certificate.
Once the certificate is issued, in our view, it will be impossible to reverse. We need your support to have the Association process this dispute immediately. If the Executive Council does not act at a special meeting within the next couple of days, the Transition Agreement dispute may well be moot. Failure to file this dispute would be to the detriment of all US Airways pilots.
I would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter.
Fraternally,
Captain Jack Stephan
US Airways MEC Chairman
cc: Captain Tom Zerbarini
ALPA International Officers
Enc: AAA MEC Transition Agreement Dispute resolution
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
Say what you want. When the NMB counts the cards and ALPA tries to challenge every one, there will still be enough to call for an election.
As for honesty and integrity? Look at ALPA and then make your comparisons. How long has USAPA been around? 4 months, 3 months publicly. I hope you don't jump to snap decisions all the time.
Callsign_Cactus
Senior
- May 6, 2007
- 285
- 0
It's public knowledge. Parker put out a letter on CIC for all to read - why don't you just go edumacate yourself.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
What an absolutely moronic comment. USAPA, ALPA the choice is yours. How does choosing one or the other equal no representation?
And what actions are you refering to? USAPA gets elected and then what? They decide to do nothing? If there is a change in the representation, the choice is yours whether to participate or not. Personally I hope you don't. It will make everything easier to enter negotiations and achieve a new CBA.
Then again, I hope you do participate and vote like the rest of us. That's what participative oversight means.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
Well since the PBGC disagrees with you up to now. I am sure the ramp guys are looking forward to your posting all the public knowledge letters.
Since this is going before an arbitrator, there must be some dispute. If the ramp guys win, so do I. And your right. Why don't you volunteer to help them and settle this once and for all.
And it's educate.
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