AA/US continuation of good trend

[wings396]

but it's ok for us to talk about how it would be good for all for US to buy AA?

In short, YES. It was OK for DL/NW to hook up as well as UA/CO. Your Delta has already declared world dominance, so it baffles me as to why you are so involved and concerned about the goings on at AA & US, Could it be that you fear they may cause a threat to DL if they do merge at some point? It sure seems that way to me. I have been in the industry for 35 years, and seen Delta rise and fall more than once over the years. Remember their flawed business plan a few years ago that was based on the demise of US? We are still here, and DL didn't run us off the map as planned. I have read many of your posts, and they all reach the same goal. Delta is great, and they do everything great. All of the other Airlines are screwed up in some way, shape, or form. Your Delta Cheerleading is about to make me Puke already. I hope that you are some of the Top Brass over there, if not you need to get a real grip on life already pal...

 

[WorldTraveler]

My participation in this thread was because some people wanted to mention me even though I hadn't participated in the thread - and I responded to the issues that were raised. Later, others raised legitimate STRATEGIC issues which they felt should be included in the discussion of AA/US - and that included competitive considerations. DL IS a competitor to US and AA... while some don't want to hear about DL, anyone that wants to talk about AA/US must do so within the context of the industry.
And then we've had some side issues regarding the size of WN vs DL, DL's strategy at LAX etc....
I have responded to the discussions in the context of the thread in which they appear - and may I suggest that those of you who don't want to talk about competitors in the industry instead focus on your internal labor and customer service issues - because I don't participate in those threads.
If there are competitive or strategic issues involved, then you can't and won't discuss those in isolation without considering the rest of the industry - unless you want to participate in a closed discussion where focusing on your little world allows you to forget what is really going on in the world around you.
.
Go ahead and puke if it makes you feel better... but it won't change the world in which you live. Understanding what is happening around you and figuring out how to live in might make you just reduce some of your self-induced nausea.
.
DL was out to destroy US? Really? have that in writing? Your perception based on the fact that DL has gained market share relative to US in dozens of cities up and down the east coast, perhaps, but it is hardly something you can find in writing.... but let's not doubt that the airline industry is highly competitive and DL will do what all well run companies do and that is increase their profitability and if that comes at the expense of a competitor, that is the way the business works. The airline industry isn't a regulated utility anymore where each airline had their own territory or routes they served free from competition or if it existed, it was carefully controlled by the government. If you want that kind of industry, electric utilities are probably the place you need to be.
.
Jim,
My boat will sail today and tomorrow whether WN is the largest domestic airline or not - and so will DL's and so will WN's.
WN's claim to being the largest domestic airline based on passenger boardings instead of looking at revenue or actual passenger miles traveled is alot like telling your friends at a party that you spent all day mowing your lawn. Knowing the size of your lawn and having similarly sized lawns, your friends share that they cut their lawns in 30-45 minutes and also mention that the homeowners association awarded them the award of best manicured lawns in the neighborhood. As the discussion further progresses, it becomes apparent that they use riding lawnmowers while you use a weed eater to cut your lawn. Not only does the riding lawnmower cut more grasss at a time but it does it consistently and it bags the grass so it isn't necessary to rake afterwards.
Simple illustration - and I have seen people cut grass with weedeaters - but the end result still is a question of who used their resources most effectively to get the job done.

You can whip this little sub-topic into another frenzy if you wish but would you like to show me anyone other than WN's PR department who really cares? Would you like to show me evidence of any BOD or investor that cares whether WN or any other airline carries more passengers or not?
I can tell you that counting passengers as the basis for determining the relevance of a company is a meaningless relic of the regulated era that has little if any correlation to what airlines actually do as businesses which is to make money.
Everything financial about the airline industry today includes regional carriers. Yes, whether a flight is operated by a mainline or regional carrier mattters to labor - as it should.... but labor doesn't even care about the number of passengers boarded. They care about numbers of flights/aircraft/RPMs and ASMs. Creating an artificial division between regional carrier and mainline operations to argue a point that isn't even relevant to anyone but a few people in Washington and one airline's PR department won't answer or solve any of the real strategic issues facing the world, including the airline industry.
.
The real strategic issue of this thread remains whether AA and US TOGETHER could create more value than they have been able to or might create on their own... and whether US can make a merger with AA work any better than has any of the multiple other mergers in which US has engaged in the past.
.
And like or not, answering that question will require looking at what other carriers have done, including DL and UA specifically since they remain the closest peer match to AA who will be trying to figure out how it can again compete with DL and UA who have restructured their operations and successfully expanded thru mergers. In addition, WN remains AA's most significant domestic competitive threat and DL, UA, and WN now control 2/3 of the US domestic market. Like it or not, but AA/AMR's creditors will look at the how well AA/US can compete against the new order in the airline industry which is being led by DL, UA, and WN, each of which have made their own strategic moves - and each of which has made the strategic challenges facing AA and US even greater.
If AA and US can create more value together than they can separately, then there might be a future transaction - assuming someone else doesn't decide they want the pieces or whole of either AA or US and they can argue THEY can create more strategic value.
.
The best way for US to ensure that it can win in its strategic objectives involves winning at what it should be winning at right now - and it doesn't have anything to do with AA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,
My boat will sail today and tomorrow whether WN is the largest domestic airline or not - and so will DL's and so will WN's. <snip>
You can whip this little sub-topic into another frenzy if you wish but would you like to show me anyone other than WN's PR department who really cares? Would you like to show me evidence of any BOD or investor that cares whether WN or any other airline carries more passengers or not?

It was important enough to you for you to bring up, wasn't it? Until it was pointed out that DL would not be the largest U.S. carrier measured by enplaned passengers. Suddenly it lost your interest and isn't a good measure of anything...

Jim

 

[AstroLounge]

In short, YES. It was OK for DL/NW to hook up as well as UA/CO. Your Delta has already declared world dominance, so it baffles me as to why you are so involved and concerned about the goings on at AA & US, Could it be that you fear they may cause a threat to DL if they do merge at some point? It sure seems that way to me. I have been in the industry for 35 years, and seen Delta rise and fall more than once over the years. Remember their flawed business plan a few years ago that was based on the demise of US? We are still here, and DL didn't run us off the map as planned. I have read many of your posts, and they all reach the same goal. Delta is great, and they do everything great. All of the other Airlines are screwed up in some way, shape, or form. Your Delta Cheerleading is about to make me Puke already. I hope that you are some of the Top Brass over there, if not you need to get a real grip on life already pal...

VERY Well Stated. Like I have said BEFORE (Time and Again, again and again......) it's like Penis Envy with this Clown. W-o-r-r-y about what the hell is going on at DELTA...........don't concern yourself with what is taking place at US, AA, CO, UA, WN or whomever. "IF" WT needs a project to concern himself..........why doesn't He contemplate whether Mother Teresa ever had sexaual thoughts before taking her vows of chastity. (Who knows, it may have been on a Delta flight?) If there was ever a person I wish the lithium battery of their computer would blow up and impair their ability to get on their Internet Soap Box, World Traveller...........It's You! I could literally puke every time I see one of his posts............if it isn't BS it's like the dude is a Propaganda Magnet..............NO ONE is Interested in What YOU Think. Get the Hell Over Yourself already!

 

[Phoenix]

Chip? Did you get a new screen name?

 

[LD3]

I have responded to the discussions in the context of the thread in which they appear - and may I suggest that those of you who don't want to talk about competitors in the industry instead focus on your internal labor and customer service issues - because I don't participate in those threads.

Remember this one: TWU or IAM for The Mechanics @ AA & US. Or this one, What does this mean for the agents at US
Communications Workers of America on Tuesday filed for a representation, or this one, Remember this in 2005? Union leaders bad or good?

Those were 3 threads regarding US labor issues that you chimed in on....So you do participate in those threads..

 

[diamondcutter]

My participation in this thread was because some people wanted to mention me even though I hadn't participated in the thread - and I responded to the issues that were raised. Later, others raised legitimate STRATEGIC issues which they felt should be included in the discussion of AA/US - and that included competitive considerations. DL IS a competitor to US and AA... while some don't want to hear about DL, anyone that wants to talk about AA/US must do so within the context of the industry.
And then we've had some side issues regarding the size of WN vs DL, DL's strategy at LAX etc....
I have responded to the discussions in the context of the thread in which they appear - and may I suggest that those of you who don't want to talk about competitors in the industry instead focus on your internal labor and customer service issues - because I don't participate in those threads.
If there are competitive or strategic issues involved, then you can't and won't discuss those in isolation without considering the rest of the industry - unless you want to participate in a closed discussion where focusing on your little world allows you to forget what is really going on in the world around you.
.
Go ahead and puke if it makes you feel better... but it won't change the world in which you live. Understanding what is happening around you and figuring out how to live in might make you just reduce some of your self-induced nausea.
.
DL was out to destroy US? Really? have that in writing? Your perception based on the fact that DL has gained market share relative to US in dozens of cities up and down the east coast, perhaps, but it is hardly something you can find in writing.... but let's not doubt that the airline industry is highly competitive and DL will do what all well run companies do and that is increase their profitability and if that comes at the expense of a competitor, that is the way the business works. The airline industry isn't a regulated utility anymore where each airline had their own territory or routes they served free from competition or if it existed, it was carefully controlled by the government. If you want that kind of industry, electric utilities are probably the place you need to be.
.
Jim,
My boat will sail today and tomorrow whether WN is the largest domestic airline or not - and so will DL's and so will WN's.
WN's claim to being the largest domestic airline based on passenger boardings instead of looking at revenue or actual passenger miles traveled is alot like telling your friends at a party that you spent all day mowing your lawn. Knowing the size of your lawn and having similarly sized lawns, your friends share that they cut their lawns in 30-45 minutes and also mention that the homeowners association awarded them the award of best manicured lawns in the neighborhood. As the discussion further progresses, it becomes apparent that they use riding lawnmowers while you use a weed eater to cut your lawn. Not only does the riding lawnmower cut more grasss at a time but it does it consistently and it bags the grass so it isn't necessary to rake afterwards.
Simple illustration - and I have seen people cut grass with weedeaters - but the end result still is a question of who used their resources most effectively to get the job done.

You can whip this little sub-topic into another frenzy if you wish but would you like to show me anyone other than WN's PR department who really cares? Would you like to show me evidence of any BOD or investor that cares whether WN or any other airline carries more passengers or not?
I can tell you that counting passengers as the basis for determining the relevance of a company is a meaningless relic of the regulated era that has little if any correlation to what airlines actually do as businesses which is to make money.
Everything financial about the airline industry today includes regional carriers. Yes, whether a flight is operated by a mainline or regional carrier mattters to labor - as it should.... but labor doesn't even care about the number of passengers boarded. They care about numbers of flights/aircraft/RPMs and ASMs. Creating an artificial division between regional carrier and mainline operations to argue a point that isn't even relevant to anyone but a few people in Washington and one airline's PR department won't answer or solve any of the real strategic issues facing the world, including the airline industry.
.
The real strategic issue of this thread remains whether AA and US TOGETHER could create more value than they have been able to or might create on their own... and whether US can make a merger with AA work any better than has any of the multiple other mergers in which US has engaged in the past.
.
And like or not, answering that question will require looking at what other carriers have done, including DL and UA specifically since they remain the closest peer match to AA who will be trying to figure out how it can again compete with DL and UA who have restructured their operations and successfully expanded thru mergers. In addition, WN remains AA's most significant domestic competitive threat and DL, UA, and WN now control 2/3 of the US domestic market. Like it or not, but AA/AMR's creditors will look at the how well AA/US can compete against the new order in the airline industry which is being led by DL, UA, and WN, each of which have made their own strategic moves - and each of which has made the strategic challenges facing AA and US even greater.
If AA and US can create more value together than they can separately, then there might be a future transaction - assuming someone else doesn't decide they want the pieces or whole of either AA or US and they can argue THEY can create more strategic value.
.
The best way for US to ensure that it can win in its strategic objectives involves winning at what it should be winning at right now - and it doesn't have anything to do with AA.

Thanx again Jimmity Criket ... For yet another long winded post . We're you twirling you cane when you thought up your reply? Now run along Disney is calling you ... I'm sure delta has an hourly shuttle

 

[AstroLounge]

Thanx again Jimmity Criket ... For yet another long winded post . We're you twirling you cane when you thought up your reply? Now run along Disney is calling you ... I'm sure delta has an hourly shuttle

Touche'. And I am certain that Delta flies only 777's, 767s and A330's on the route because The DEMAND far surpasses every airline that ever flew the route. A lavish meal is provided along with VOD of 300 movies and a cashmere douvet to snuggle up in. Now Go Choke on a Claxton Fruitcake.........a Southern Delicacy. Idiot!

 

[DCaf]

My participation in this thread was because some people wanted to mention me even though I hadn't participated in the thread - and I responded to the issues that were raised.

That sounds like a blatant falsehood to me. I could not find any mention of your screen name, even the shortened version, in any post on this thread until you popped off about how tired you were of all these posts about AA/US, at submission number 41.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you might want to back up to post 25 and see that there were about a dozen posts that included references to DL and one that included my name before I responded.

.
In the meantime, I'll reference the comment of EOlesen who recently said that those who resort to name calling and character assassinations usually don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation. In true form, we have about a half dozen posts involving nothing productive regarding the subject of the thread but no shortage of character assassination.
.
It remains that these fantasies of an AA merger remain nothing but an attempt to disguise the fact that despite numerous mergers and dozens of former hubs spread out across the country, US has not been able to figure out how to survive long term. Your CEO himself says it on a regular basis. The fact that other airlines are succeeding at doing what they said they would do doesn't make US situation any easier but it also isn't there fault.
.
US and its people need to figure out how to create their own future. It won't come from AA and it won't come from anyone else.

If US can't figure it out they will be added to the list of failed airlines or be sold for scrap.

 

[DCaf]

Dcaf response in bold.

you might want to back up to post 25 and see that there were about a dozen posts that included references to DL and one that included my name before I responded. You're right, I missed the WT reference. It was just a mention, hardly an attack. Does your computer go BING every time WT, or DL, or Delta is mentioned?

In the meantime, I'll reference the comment of EOlesen who recently said that those who resort to name calling and character assassinations usually don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation. In true form, we have about a half dozen posts involving nothing productive regarding the subject of the thread but no shortage of character assassination. Oh my God, you'll live. You insult airlines, if not people. That any more allowable?
.
It remains that these fantasies of an AA merger remain nothing but an attempt to disguise the fact that despite numerous mergers and dozens of former hubs spread out across the country, US has not been able to figure out how to survive long term. Your CEO himself says it on a regular basis. The fact that other airlines are succeeding at doing what they said they would do doesn't make US situation any easier but it also isn't there fault. US has been able to survive long term (still here). And when has Doug Parker said US can't figure it out?
.
US and its people need to figure out how to create their own future. It won't come from AA and it won't come from anyone else. No airline has it all figured out, forever.

If US can't figure it out they will be added to the list of failed airlines or be sold for scrap. Just smacked DL down in DCA. It's a good start.

 

[diamondcutter]

you might want to back up to post 25 and see that there were about a dozen posts that included references to DL and one that included my name before I responded.

.
In the meantime, I'll reference the comment of EOlesen who recently said that those who resort to name calling and character assassinations usually don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation. In true form, we have about a half dozen posts involving nothing productive regarding the subject of the thread but no shortage of character assassination.
.
It remains that these fantasies of an AA merger remain nothing but an attempt to disguise the fact that despite numerous mergers and dozens of former hubs spread out across the country, US has not been able to figure out how to survive long term. Your CEO himself says it on a regular basis. The fact that other airlines are succeeding at doing what they said they would do doesn't make US situation any easier but it also isn't there fault.

US and its people need to figure out how to create their own future. It won't come from AA and it won't come from anyone else.

If US can't figure it out they will be added to the list of failed airlines or be sold for scrap.


WT



For as many times you have insulted US and make up BS that Parker has said ... You deserve it. Really what is your Intel. I'm calling BS on you. where and when has Doug ever made that statement ? In those words. You twist and spin and push delta into everything. Seems most has had enough. We will continue to call you out anytime we see fit. Who the hell are you to tell US what they need to figure out? You WT can only speculate what will
happen....Are you a creditor or on the board or should I just follow the yellow brick road and find you in emerald city?

 

[AstroLounge]

you might want to back up to post 25 and see that there were about a dozen posts that included references to DL and one that included my name before I responded.

.
In the meantime, I'll reference the comment of EOlesen who recently said that those who resort to name calling and character assassinations usually don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation. In true form, we have about a half dozen posts involving nothing productive regarding the subject of the thread but no shortage of character assassination.
.
It remains that these fantasies of an AA merger remain nothing but an attempt to disguise the fact that despite numerous mergers and dozens of former hubs spread out across the country, US has not been able to figure out how to survive long term. Your CEO himself says it on a regular basis. The fact that other airlines are succeeding at doing what they said they would do doesn't make US situation any easier but it also isn't there fault.
.
US and its people need to figure out how to create their own future. It won't come from AA and it won't come from anyone else.

If US can't figure it out they will be added to the list of failed airlines or be sold for scrap.

TAKE The HINT Already............GET F'n Lost! Call it a Day.

 

[diamondcutter]

TAKE The HINT Already............GET F'n Lost! Call it a Day.

Well said !!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

apparently I hit a raw nerve in reminding you that US' business plan is the problem... and not anyone else's.
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If you don't want to read what I write then start a closed forum where all of the happy US people can hand out group hugs to each other (yeah right)... or you can use the ignore function, a feature of this board.