AA, UA and DL in China

[WorldTraveler]

why thank you, 700.

a respect rating on a.net of 23? wow. Can you tell us how many posters on that forum received ratings that high?

can you highlight meltdown that supposedly took place?

can you tell me where I was wrong - even looking at those posts 4 years later?

The only thing that is true is that JL still is competing but they have less seats in the market, are part of the smallest US-Asia joint venture, and are still #3 in the US-Japan market even with AA's help.

DL is restructuring its Pacific operation on its terms, is adding capacity to Asia which overflies NRT and is still profitable doing so, and I am betting the new 333s will likely be the backbone of DL's Japan operations because their CASM is low but removes about 100 seats per flight from the 747s although the new 333s likely cannot fly ATL-NRT or JFK-NRT during the winter.

tell me again, where is the breakdown and where in the inaccuracy in what I wrote?


since you're enjoying the Germany comparison, can you compare the size of DL vs AA/US even though US was part of Star while DL doesn't have a German alliance partner and hasn't had a hub in Germany for years?

we'd you like to talk about the average fares that AA is getting on their new DUS flight compared to DL's? we can go there if you want.

 

[eolesen]

Queue WT: "You see, I was right about all that!",

To be quickly followed by page upon pages of diatribe and grand statements, all saying that "the data shows" without ever showing said data, and so on, & so on, & so on, summarized by a few "what the AA fanclub fails to see"....

[on edit -- too late, as WT had already started typing a retort....]

We'd get better analysis by filling out a pad of Mad Libs.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so it is ok for a half dozen people to write about this supposed meltdown that took place years ago and for them to make the change that I was completely wrong... and now that 700 has provided the texts that are supposedly the source of these comments, it is not acceptable to ask for the evidence that those posters have used?


quit the name calling and get started...

 

[eolesen]

Maybe the moderators over there deleted your meltdown/tantrum at the same time they banned you from the site?...

I'm glad you said you get your 8 hours of sleep, but you must spend at least 8 to 10 hours a day doing all that research and typing out your missives. When do you find time to serve the people you're paid to serve?...

 

[WorldTraveler]

the facts are still there... just as they are here.

You and others who can't deal with the basic facts of the industry can throw all the mud you want but the evidence overwhelmingly shows that those who made such a production about how wrong I was now have the opportunity to prove it - and yet you are here engaged in mud throwing instead of dealing with the facts and trends which I highlighted 4 years ago and which are still accurate.

where it matters, AA still loses money flying to Asia, AA/JL is smaller than it was at the time of the JV led primarily by AA's cuts (which was raising the question of who was saving who in the Japan market), AA has redeployed that capacity to other parts of Asia where AA continues to underperform DL and UA, and AA/JL is the smallest carrier/JV/alliance outside of Japan as well and CX wouldn't even enter into a joint venture with AA for AA's new DFW-HKG flight.

tell me again where I have been wrong about the fundamentals and facts of the discussion.

 

[commavia]

It seems comical (and of course entirely pointless) to actually provide specific, cogent examples of some of the inaccuracies that riddle the aforementioned diatribes - since of course there are just too many to count.  But I keep coming back to one in particular that not only showcases the penchant for bitter, emotional hyperbole, but also the obsession with combining manipulated and/or highly-qualified half-truths with arrogantly misplaced certitude to produce blatantly, hysterically, patently false non-truths:
 

"DL still is the largest foreign airline in Japan and will still operate more than enough flights to depress yields over the Pacific and in Japan as long as it takes to finish Japan Airlines off once and for all.... and in the meantime, DL will be pulling traffic left and right off of JL and AA."

 
Timeless ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

and yet you can't deny that I what I said is completely accurate.

so it is pointless to argue?

of course it is pointless.

Yields in the US- Japan market dropped by double digits, DL remained profitable, and other carriers including AA who is in partnership with JL cut capacity more than DL.

I was dead on accurate.

I'm so glad that 700 dug out those old posts so we could confirm it.

 

[ChockJockey]

AA is winning in China.

 

[LD3]

CO really put a whooping on AA....

 

[WorldTraveler]

winning what?
 

CO really put a whooping on AA....

explain?

CO operated multiple flights from NYC to E. Asia and turned them over to UA who still does.

AA, not so much.

 

[commavia]

The yields Delta appears to have been the most adept at depressing were its own, on multiple routes in and out of NRT, which is why that hub is being steadily dismantled, and far from "finishing off" JAL "once and for all," JAL today is producing higher margins than Delta.
 
And yet somehow those baseless prognostications - long ago proven wildly false - are still "completely accurate."  We honestly have entered the twighlight zone ..

 

[ChockJockey]

winning what?

 
Exactly.  You may yet achieve enlightenment.
 

And yet somehow those baseless prognostications - long ago proven wildly false - are still "completely accurate."  We honestly have entered the twighlight zone ..

 
When one is so mired in and devoted to the self-love of his faculties of analysis to presume that his interpretations of facts seamlessly and automatically assume the veracity of those facts he can never fail to be 'completely accurate' ever and always.  Self-doubt can be wholesome and tempering; some simply lack the capacity for it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The yields Delta appears to have been the most adept at depressing were its own, on multiple routes in and out of NRT, which is why that hub is being steadily dismantled, and far from "finishing off" JAL "once and for all," JAL today is producing higher margins than Delta.
 
And yet somehow those baseless prognostications - long ago proven wildly false - are still "completely accurate."  We honestly have entered the twighlight zone ..

and your evidence that JL's TPAC yields have fared better than DL's come from where? and is?

and your evidence that JL's margin on the Pacific is higher than DL's comes from where? and is?


let us not lose sight of the fact that the best you can do to rescue the notion that AA's Pacific operation is losing huge amounts of money is to hang on to JL's performance, despite the fact that a major portion of AA's TPAC is not operated as part of the JV and can't be as long as the US and China don't have Open Skies.

and even if it does happen, Skyteam and Star both have far stronger positions in China than wonworld (not) has.

AA is losing money all by its own lonesome self and dragging JL into the mix doesn't change it.

In fact, AA's cutting capacity to/from Japan highlights that AA can't generate the revenue so the best course of action is to leave the market wherever possible to JL.

hope you enjoy your trip to the twilight zone.

the evidence here is very down to earth.

 

[Kev3188]

why thank you, 700.

a respect rating on a.net of 23? wow. Can you tell us how many posters on that forum received ratings that high?

Can you show us anyone on either site that's as thirsty for endorsement as you seem to be?

 

[700UW]

You mean the site he got banned from? LOL