AA, UA and DL in China

[commavia]

Bwahahahahahahahaha.
 
Ah yes yes, of course, you are the one that "for ten years" has had to tell the world how AA is doing.  Because nobody else in the world knows how to read a 10K or a Form 41 (or listen to an earnings call, or open a newspaper).
 
Wow - that's almost as good as Delta "winning in N. Texas."
 
I swear the comedy never stops!  Incredible!

 

[WorldTraveler]

and 10 years later, you continue to not get it.

when you get on here and write that AA has now passed up DL because of AA's JV with JL, you simply don't get it.

AA hasn't made money flying to Asia for years whether it was large in Japan or had a JV with JL or not.

You, just like nAAtive mgmt. can't figure out how to figure out how to have a viable Asia system. They have been trying for 20 years or more.

To be fair, DL didn't make it work with its PDX and LAX gateways in the 90s.

But DL cut back to what it could do and realize it couldn't waste resources doing something it can't make money it.

Your perspective validates that AA is more driven to have a presence in a part of the world without any evidence it can profitably do it or not... "and by golly we will stick it out until we figure it out."

When AA is offering government contract fares from LAX to Asia for $400 - less than what they get in average fares or government fares across the Atlantic - there is something drastically wrong with AA's revenue generating ability to Asia and all the new 787s, new routes, and gateways won't fix it. The JL JV was supposed to fix AA's revenue generation to/from JL but they still are 3 out of 3 in revenue.

I don't honestly know why AA can't generate revenue but I do know that it cannot continue.

And I also know that the continued denial and derision that you show to anyone pointing out what doesn't work is precisely why nothing is getting fixed - if what you say is even remotely connected to what AA people in charge are really thinking.

sadly, there is far too much reason to believe that the mindset of denial, derision of the truth, and inability to accept real criticism very much exists within DFW leadership.

but I can also assure you that it won't last and AA's Asian system will be fixed.

 

[robbedagain]

almost 7 months into this yr and DL is still not profitable in NY  and NY is not exactly a small metro...   but we shall see.
 
as for JL serving SAN  how well are they doing on that run?

 

[WorldTraveler]

and again, finding fault with someone else does nothing to solve your own problem.


DL says it has a plan and expects to be profitable in NYC... and let's also they have never said that LGA is not profitable and in fact have identified the problems that are the problem with their JFK operation.

they identified that the number of 50 seat aircraft in the operation is making it impossible to be profitable - and doesn't offer the level of service that premium customers needs.

They also have said that the terminal situation was a problem; DL tried for years to fix it and was close to signing a contract before 9/11 but never did. They started down the path of expanding T4 and making it primarily but not exclusively a DL facility.

but the process takes time, DL has acted on a well defined plan, and says they intend to be profitable in NYC this year - including JFK.

Now tell me, what has AA said is the problem with their Asia operations, what plan do they have to fix the problem, and when will it happen?

As much as you want to throw mud at DL, the problem is AA's, they didn't even admit there was a problem until Parker came along, and there is yet to be a plan.

as much as you want to believe, what DL is doing in NYC is completely different from AA in Asia.

to your question regarding JL at SAN, their LF on the route in the 4th quarter of 2013 was 71% about 7 points less than their LF on their entire US system and about 8 points less than all carriers operating on US - Asia routes.

It is impossible to know financially how well a foreign carrier does on its US services beyond what it does as part of an JV.

 

[commavia]

Still writing these long, pointless, biased, sanctimonious, obnoxious, arrogant missives full of so many half-truths, manipulations and misstatements that nobody reads them other than for their comedic value, and yet I'm the one who "doesn't get it."  Yeah, right.  Keep digging!

 

[WorldTraveler]

all you have to do is admit that AA really does have a problem in Asia.

Everyone else already knows it because the US DOT reports profitability by region for each airline.

Al Anon says that the first step in recovery is to admit that there is a problem.

The principle doesn't apply just to alcoholism.

 

[eolesen]

And yet, you insist that you're the solution, not the root of the problem...

 

[FWAAA]

all you have to do is admit that AA really does have a problem in Asia.

Everyone else already knows it.

Al Anon says that the first step in recovery is to admit that there is a problem.

The principle doesn't apply just to alcoholism.

You have lost your grip on reality.
 
Get help.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no.

AA is the ONLY US airline that has lost money EVERY YEAR over the past 5 years flying across the Pacific.

The fact that you want to throw stones at someone who points out that fact shows who has the problem.

Admission of a problem IS the first step to fixing the problem.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You have lost your grip on reality.
 
Get help.

What really frightens me is that he is probably counseling people in his current role (not as forum freek).

His delusional behavior is getting worse. All here see it except Spectator.

Admission is the first step. Ask Spectator to help.

 

[WorldTraveler]

feel free to throw stones if it makes you feel better.

I've seen it before. All it confirms is that some people - a lot here - can't deal with the factual reality of the topic at hand.

The issue has been and is that AA loses massive amounts of money flying to Asia, no other airline has as poor of a track record flying to any single region of their network, AA's transpacific losses in the last year - the one in which they were in BK and had the greatest ability to reduce costs - was the highest ever, and all that the fan club here can do is throw rocks at the messenger instead of admitting that the message is absolutely correct.

 

[LDVAviation]

 I know full well that some of the investment analysts read this forum and read a.net when I posted there because some of the same themes and arguments that have been made here end up within days in published blogs and columns.

 
Do you think those "investment analysts" witnessed your "nervous breakdown" on airliners.net after JAL chose AA over Delta?  (Can someone here find that post?  It was insane.) ... If I remember correctly, you ranted (like a baby throwing toys out of his pram) about how JAL would rue the day it made that decision and that JAL would never regain its footing without Delta's help.  (You even declared as Commavia noted above that Delta would retaliate by adding as many flights on competitive routes as necessary to finish off JAL.)
 
In Aviation Week's Annual Airline Rankings (2014), JAL won the large-carrier category.  So much for your "three decades" of industry knowledge.

 

[silverbird007]

Not naming names but someone must have told this baby that DL was now #3 after AA and UA, Also that AA posted a profit almost double what DL posted! Again no names please it might push the baby over the edge! Are babies allowed to take anxiety medication?

 

[LD3]

LDV comes in with a strong post at 10:54p and it is now 07:31a  and no response yet from WT....

 

[WorldTraveler]

Do you think those "investment analysts" witnessed your "nervous breakdown" on airliners.net after JAL chose AA over Delta?  (Can someone here find that post?  It was insane.) ... If I remember correctly, you ranted (like a baby throwing toys out of his pram) about how JAL would rue the day it made that decision and that JAL would never regain its footing without Delta's help.  (You even declared as Commavia noted above that Delta would retaliate by adding as many flights on competitive routes as necessary to finish off JAL.)
 
In Aviation Week's Annual Airline Rankings (2014), JAL won the large-carrier category.  So much for your "three decades" of industry knowledge.

I do wish you would find that post. I'd love to see what you characterize as a nervous breakdown.

It appears to me that some people here are the ones that are having nervous breakdowns when confronted with the published, factual reality of where AA is in Asia and spend no end of time trying to find fault with everyone else than admit there is a problem.

I actually avoid nervous breakdowns by going to bed to nite... and I don't post in my sleep. hope you feel good about having your post go unchallenged for 8 hours or so.

The simple fact is that DL is still the largest single carrier between the US and Japan. The NH/UA JV is larger than both DL and AA/JL.

But DL is still the largest carrier in the US-Japan local market.

If it makes you feel good that AA got a JV that left them as the #3 carrier behind the US and Japan, a market where they have reduced capacity by 25% since the JV, then feel free to claim victory.


DL is and has remained profitable flying across the Pacific despite the drop in yields.

JL is at far less risk of losing market share across the Pacific than AA.

JL just happened to make the really bad decision of hitching its hopes to an airline has to subsidize its Asian operation to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per year.

Let's also not forget that JL faces enormous backlash for being bailed out in BK and NH has done a great job of highlighting JL's unfair advantage which translated into more slots at HND than JL got.

Further, every new flight than any carrier including AA adds across the Pacific that overflies Japan makes JL less and less relevant, esp. to China because US carriers cannot participate in joint ventures to/from China.

So, no, JL hasn't won anything. They are smaller than they were before, they have a joint venture with a carrier that loses hundreds of millions of dollars of year, Japan continues to shrink as a connecting hub which hits JL's core business worse, and JL/AA is #3 out of 3 among transpac carriers/alliances in the local US-Japan market.

JL might be winning awards but they aren't based on marketplace financials.


 
 

Not naming names but someone must have told this baby that DL was now #3 after AA and UA, Also that AA posted a profit almost double what DL posted! Again no names please it might push the baby over the edge! Are babies allowed to take anxiety medication?

in fact, based on 1st quarter financials, DL is the 2nd largest carrier.

few analysts have noted it because the difference between DL and UA was small but DL's much larger RASM growth means DL is generated more revenue on fewer ASMs than UA.

since DL is growing its network faster than UA, it is likely that DL will become the #2 carrier again in 2014.

hope no one goes over the edge when they find out that their claims on this thread have been taken out of their hand as being false.