AA stock

[Duke787]

AA closed at $6.30
CAL $24.53
DAL $11.59
LCC $9.06
LUV $13.19
UAUA $23.41

At what point does the AMR board step in and say WTF? Even US Air is out performing our stock, that is embarrassing. Is there a reason why our executives are sitting on their arse, sure they got the AA/BA deal after what 10 years of work, but I see no change at ORD other then they are hiring about 10 supervisors. Why AA would hire Boston consulting is a wonderment to me. I think after listening to them AA really started to decline, and I'm a pro company guy. I also think it says volumes that no mech wants to move further up the company chain of command by interviewing for the supervisor positions. I personally think that says our upper management isn't held in high regard. They should have hired Crandal if they needed a consultant.


No contract
No morale
No respect
Just comparing the employee's wage's to a brick weighting you down.
Just having the second highest paid airline executives. (according to Santos from JFK)
Of course what do I know, maybe the board wants to have the lowest stock price.

:blink:

 

[eolesen]

IMHO, the stock price is a useless measure to be worried about unless you're holding it and hoping to sell at some point.

I also think it says volumes that no mech wants to move further up the company chain of command by interviewing for the supervisor positions. I personally think that says our upper management isn't held in high regard.

Where's the incentive to make the jump, Duke?

You lose most of your overtime pay, forgo all job security, and essentially get labeled as a traitor by the guys you used to work with. You're also more or less on call 24/7, and expected to keep track of things on days off and when on vacation.

And for what? Some business cards, and the chance to stop paying union dues?...

The reason nobody wants to move up is because it's a crappy job at the supervisor level.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

The powers to be are waiting for the stock to hit three dollars so USAir can then purchase AMR. We will then fall under the USAir CBA and be the lowest paid with the worst benefits. Then AMR will finally turn a profit but will remain the worst airline in the industry. After we get stapled to the bottom of the seniority list morale will only get worse and nothing will leave the ground. Liquidation will be inevitable the tails will get painted a different color and we can start all over again.

 

[eolesen]

Now that's funny. And a bit ignorant of reality, since the representation vote would be weighted heavily towards AMR given how much US's workforce has been decimated and divided... That's the one case where, given the dissatisfaction with both the IAM and the TWU, "none of the above" might actually be a real outcome and not just a Devil's Advocate position....

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Now that's funny. And a bit ignorant of reality, since the representation vote would be weighted heavily towards AMR given how much US's workforce has been decimated and divided... That's the one case where, given the dissatisfaction with both the IAM and the TWU, "none of the above" might actually be a real outcome and not just a Devil's Advocate position....

I dont remember the IAM members of TWA having a choice or a vote of representation after the acqusition. Ignorant ?
And with the dissatisfaction of the compAAny union here at AA I believe the IAM might have a shot even with USAirs "decimated and divided" workforce.
One thing is for sure in this industry anything is possible

 

[1AA]

The powers to be are waiting for the stock to hit three dollars so USAir can then purchase AMR. We will then fall under the USAir CBA and be the lowest paid with the worst benefits. Then AMR will finally turn a profit but will remain the worst airline in the industry. After we get stapled to the bottom of the seniority list morale will only get worse and nothing will leave the ground. Liquidation will be inevitable the tails will get painted a different color and we can start all over again.

USAir right now in its present situation would not be a good acquisition or merger or buyout. USAir is still operating as two separate carriers internally. They have not yet been able to sort out their differences between America West and USAir operations, seniority and whatever still hangs out in the open. The public does not see this because they see USAir and that's what they fly. USAir has their hands full with labor issues. Do you think AA would want to go through that mess again like they did and are still experiencing with the TWA buyout? I do not see it in the near future. Fleet compatibility would be another issues. We would have a large diverse fleet and sub-fleet just like we did back in the 80's.
An AA/USAir merger would be a bigger headache than the AA/TWA merger.

 

[eolesen]

I dont remember the IAM members of TWA having a choice or a vote of representation after the acqusition. Ignorant ?

Yes, still ignorant, meaning you don't understand how representation votes are triggered. It's all about relative size of the pre-merger/acquisition workgroups.

Once a single carrier finding is reached in a merger or acquisition, 35% of the combined workforce can trigger a vote if there's a showing of interest. If the two workgroups are of comparable size, and you have two unions who still want to represent the combined carrier, then a vote is almost guaranteed. It hasn't happened in recent history but CO/UA will probably trigger at least one vote.

The TWA employee group accounted for less than 20% of the combined workforce back in 2001, so there was no showing of interest on the part of the unions who represented TWA employees. At the time, most employees at AMR were satisfied enough with their unions to stay put, mechanics being the exception.

Airtran is only about 25% the size of WN. Unlikely there will be a representation vote unless somehow 10% of WN's employees are disgruntled enough to side with the FL employees. As I said, unlikely.

AMR is around 70,000 when you subtract Eagle, and it would take a merger partner of around 24,501 to put representation in play. US Airways Group has 30,000 employees (not sure how many are with wholly owned regionals), so it is quite likely a vote would occur in at least one workgroup, if not all five of the major workgroups.

 

[Duke787]

IMHO, the stock price is a useless measure to be worried about unless you're holding it and hoping to sell at some point.



Where's the incentive to make the jump, Duke?

You lose most of your overtime pay, forgo all job security, and essentially get labeled as a traitor by the guys you used to work with. You're also more or less on call 24/7, and expected to keep track of things on days off and when on vacation.

And for what? Some business cards, and the chance to stop paying union dues?...

The reason nobody wants to move up is because it's a crappy job at the supervisor level.

I agree with everything but the traitor part, if the upper management didn't dump all over the supervisors maybe AA would be able have experiance at that level not some 20 year old from Eagle.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

"none of the above" might actually be a real outcome

So which is it none of the above or


so it is quite likely a vote would occur in at least one workgroup, .
And relative size means nothing if the majority wants change.



Airtran is only about 25% the size of WN. Unlikely there will be a representation vote unless somehow 10% of WN's employees are disgruntled enough to side with the FL employees. As I said, unlikely.
What does airtran and southwest have to do with AMR and USAir
I am sure the employees of Airtran will be more than happy working for Southwest
now if we can only convince Southwest to acquire AMR I could get back to enjoying my job...

 

[boston]

So which is it none of the above or


so it is quite likely a vote would occur in at least one workgroup, .

And relative size means nothing if the majority wants change.



Airtran is only about 25% the size of WN. Unlikely there will be a representation vote unless somehow 10% of WN's employees are disgruntled enough to side with the FL employees. As I said, unlikely.

What does airtran and southwest have to do with AMR and USAir
I am sure the employees of Airtran will be more than happy working for Southwest
now if we can only convince Southwest to acquire AMR I could get back to enjoying my job...

Enjoying your job depends on you.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Enjoying your job depends on you.

And money isnt everything

 

[Hopeful]

Enjoying your job depends on you.

Does "THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?" ring a bell?

 

[eolesen]

So which is it none of the above or

Go re-read. It's likely that a vote would occur in at least one workgroup in a hypothetical US-AA mash-up. And discontent with their union within at least one workgroup could just as likely result in "none of the above" vs. a vote for either incumbent union.

And relative size means nothing if the majority wants change.

Absolutely. But it means everything if the larger of the two carriers is satisfied with their version of status quo.

What does airtran and southwest have to do with AMR and USAir

It goes back to explaining "why didn't TWA get to vote?"

Personally, the whole discussion on a US-AA merger is a little silly. There's a good post over on Cranky Flier which explains in a lot more detail why this is a dumb idea that keeps getting re-hashed by people who think airline mergers are fun...

http://crankyflier.com/2010/09/30/stuck-in-a-box-why-american-wont-merge-anytime-soon-guest-post/

And no, I'm not the Cardinal. I've always been a Green Bay & White Sox fan.

 

[Duke787]

I know this won't happen, but a SWA-AA deal would be huge. With AA's and SWA's domination of domestic market and AA's international route system that we have and with TWA's old routes. The new AA would be dominate.